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 Book Recommendation 
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i wanted to recommend a book for anyone intersted. It is called Pleasure and Priviledge The Author is Olivier Bernier It tells of the court life, customs, fashions, decorations, parties, ect... It is very resourceful in my opinion. I just wanted to share this book with you all. Check it out !! :D

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Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:41 pm
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Thanks for taking the time to share this recommendation

Viv


Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:21 am
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Sounds very interesting!!

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Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:35 am
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I have just finished reading the memories of the baron de Besenval (a big friend of Marie-Antoinette). However I don't know if these memories were translated into English. :? .. but I really advise it!
Besenval gives full details about the intrigues of Versailles, about the appointments of the ministers, and he describes very well the military operations of the French guards and the Suisses troops in Paris at the time of the 12, 13, and 14 July 1789 (Besenval was Lieutenant-Colonel of the Swiss guards).
And of course he gives full anecdotes about Polignac and Marie-Antoinette... a real pleasure! :D

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:11 pm
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And is this Besenval kind to our dear Madame de Polignac ?

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:19 pm
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Yes Besenval seemed close to her, and she spoke much about policy together.
Besenval benefitted from this friendship to influence Polignac on the choice of several minister so as she will speak to Marie-Antoinette about it : it is the only bad point which I give him.
But he does not criticize Polignac only once, and he is objective with her. The Polignac who he describes is a good Polignac I find :wink:

And for you Pimprenelle : Besenval almost does not speak about Fersen (one or 2 times not more): It is very good! :D

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:38 pm
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Hé hé ! :lol: From a man being really close to Trianon circle, it is relevant an information, isn't it ?

However, Ms Lever and Kermina would answer by using this conspiracy of silence ! :lol: Smashing, for a way to criticize history, isn't it ? Did you know Marie Antoinette ate but cheeseburgers from macdo ? No, you didn't ? No contemporary reports this... so, it has to be true ! :roll:

I found Weber's souvenirs on gallica site. He also wrote wonderful things about Mme de Polignac. Why do so few scholars rely on these testimonies ? They seem quite partial...

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
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It seems that anything favorable to Marie-Antoinette and Madame Polignac is dismissed as royalist propaganda. What a shame! Anything very critical is seen as being more "balanced."

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:39 pm
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Quote:
Hé hé ! From a man being really close to Trianon circle, it is relevant an information, isn't it ?


You understood me very well I see :wink:

Quote:
However, Ms Lever and Kermina would answer by using this conspiracy of silence ! Smashing, for a way to criticize history, isn't it ? Did you know Marie Antoinette ate but cheeseburgers from macdo ? No, you didn't ? No contemporary reports this... so, it has to be true !


:lol: Yes it is what they would answer us indeed! :wink:
But for Besenval Fersen is a character less than secondary because he almost does not speak about him... He speaks more policy, ministers or businesses. Thus for him Fersen is transparent! :D
But not only he does not speak about the relations between Marie-Antoinette and Fersen, but he does not even speak about Fersen himself... is to say if Fersen marked Besenval! :lol:

Quote:
found Weber's souvenirs on gallica site. He also wrote wonderful things about Mme de Polignac. Why do so few scholars rely on these testimonies ? They seem quite partial...


Indeed Weber also was correct with Polignac... but him and Besenval are little quoted it is sad... :?
Moreover I find that the memories of Besenval and those of Weber resemble each other a little... they gave anecdotes on Marie-Antoinette and her close relations, they have both described in a right way the close relations of Marie-Antoinette, and both approached Fersen very little also... :D
It is rather significant for the importance of Fersen in Versailles and his influence on Marie-Antoinette :lol:

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:39 pm
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Most of the memoirs hardly mention Fersen, not in a way that you get an impression of discretion but rather that he just was not very important. Madame de la Tour du Pin boldly mentions the rumor about him being the queen's lover but more in a way of exposing gossip, since she also says that people said he was Madame Dillon's (her mother's) lover.

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:43 pm
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You are right, Therese ! And the most relevant, in my opinion, is Mercy's silence. Mercy wrote every little event to Marie Therese. He immediately told her about Mme de Lamballe, Mme de Polignac, Mr de Guines, Artois... all those who, for any reason, could put the queen's reputation in danger, about politics, about expenses...

Mercy never ever spoke a single word about Fersen. However, let's be sure that, should Fersen represent any danger (and, as a lover or even a flirt or even a bosom friend, he would !), Mercy would immediately tell Marie Therese about it.

No Fersen in Mercy's report ? No Fersen at all ! :lol: What else ? :lol:

Quote:
Hé hé ! From a man being really close to Trianon circle, it is relevant an information, isn't it ?

You understood me very well I see

J'étais sûre ma main au feu que t'allais le prendre perso ! J'adore ! :D

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:52 pm
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Yes, if Mercy had thought that even an intense flirtation was going on between Fersen and the queen, he would have treated it as an international calamity. He was a shrewd old bird and would have been able to tell if there was any kind of inordinate relationship.

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:57 pm
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Pimprenelle wrote:

Quote:
J'étais sûre ma main au feu que t'allais le prendre perso ! J'adore !


Comment ça perso? :D

Quote:
No Fersen in Mercy's report ? No Fersen at all ! What else ?


It is true I had never noticed... Mercy also however does not speak about Fersen... However when he had the occasion to worry Marie-Thérèse he did not hesitate... :?
But Fersen really did exist? :lol:

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:03 pm
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Ta ta !!!
Image
Yes, he does ! :lol:

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:10 pm
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Quel homme! :lol:
Ah...ma jeunesse... :D

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Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:12 pm
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