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 Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire 
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
it was really those years.... the 1770s when Marie was young
and vivacious... adored by Parisian and Court society... she was
the Belle of the Ball.
Yet she was frustrated , living in an unconsumated marriage to a dull
husband who seemed to live in another world.
She began to lead a hectic social life of Balls and festivities
aided and abetted by the Comte Artois ( her brother in law )
and Yolande Polignac her dearest friend (really her soul mate )
It was in 1772 that she was introduced to Rose Bertin the couturier
who fed Marie's obsession with glamour and fashion.... producing more
and more outlandish costumes for her to wear ... at great expense.

The years of the 1770s were wild , hedonistic years of celebration
feasting, gambling and every form of excess. Marie was trying to forget
her sexual frustrations in a wild social whirl.

Marie and the Royal Courtiers had no idea of the resentments that were
building up among the common people of France, the peasants whose life
was harsh and ... through increasing taxes... was getting even harsher.
For Marie and her gilded circle of friends the wine flowed, the music played and life was an endless series of enchantment and delight.
The 1780s however would be very different... there was a more sombre mood as Paris and France slid into riot and revolution.


Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:55 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Yes, but how was the movie?


Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
silverstar wrote:
it was really those years.... the 1770s when Marie was young
and vivacious... adored by Parisian and Court society... she was
the Belle of the Ball.
Yet she was frustrated , living in an unconsumated marriage to a dull
husband who seemed to live in another world.
She began to lead a hectic social life of Balls and festivities
aided and abetted by the Comte Artois ( her brother in law )
and Yolande Polignac her dearest friend (really her soul mate )
It was in 1772 that she was introduced to Rose Bertin the couturier
who fed Marie's obsession with glamour and fashion.... producing more
and more outlandish costumes for her to wear ... at great expense.

The years of the 1770s were wild , hedonistic years of celebration
feasting, gambling and every form of excess. Marie was trying to forget
her sexual frustrations in a wild social whirl.

Marie and the Royal Courtiers had no idea of the resentments that were
building up among the common people of France, the peasants whose life
was harsh and ... through increasing taxes... was getting even harsher.
For Marie and her gilded circle of friends the wine flowed, the music played and life was an endless series of enchantment and delight.
The 1780s however would be very different... there was a more sombre mood as Paris and France slid into riot and revolution.


She was called "Antoinette," not "Marie."

Isn't this thread about Georgiana?

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Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Once again, we have no idea about what silverstar is talking about. I saw the Duchess last week, it was a lovely interpretation of the main events of Georgiana's life and stayed true to Amanda Foreman's biography. Unfortunately I do not have time to put a detailed review here, but here is a review worth reading: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080925/REVIEWS/809250303/1001
I feel for you, dreamoutloud, November is such a long time to wait, considering the UK release was September!

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Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:09 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
I must take issue with Silverstar's take on France in the 1770s. Taxes were no worse than they had been before, and this was the period in which Louis XVI began to make many of his reforms. While it's true that the French Government at this time was rapidly going bankrupt (due to costly foreign wars, not Versailles), the French economy of this period was actually prospering; with expansion in commerce and trade, and many new industries. As in Great Britian during the same time, thousands of peasants were leaving the countryside to come to the cities for work in new factories and businesses. Granted, France's economic growth during this period (70s) was not as rapid or large as G.B.'s, but it was not a particularly rough time for the French people. There were many new fortunes made in France during this time.

As for the Duchess of Devonshire, I don't have a very high opinion either of her, or the new movie. She was not in the same class as Antoinette. Keira Knightly was cast as the Duchess for two reasons: her skinny good looks and her accent, both of which Americans find appealing. Hollywood makes movies to sell to American audiences, not to please history buffs like us, whatever our nationality.

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:07 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Christophe wrote:
I must take issue with Silverstar's take on France in the 1770s. Taxes were no worse than they had been before, and this was the period in which Louis XVI began to make many of his reforms. While it's true that the French Government at this time was rapidly going bankrupt (due to costly foreign wars, not Versailles), the French economy of this period was actually prospering; with expansion in commerce and trade, and many new industries. As in Great Britian during the same time, thousands of peasants were leaving the countryside to come to the cities for work in new factories and businesses. Granted, France's economic growth during this period (70s) was not as rapid or large as G.B.'s, but it was not a particularly rough time for the French people. There were many new fortunes made in France during this time.

As for the Duchess of Devonshire, I don't have a very high opinion either of her, or the new movie. She was not in the same class as Antoinette. Keira Knightly was cast as the Duchess for two reasons: her skinny good looks and her accent, both of which Americans find appealing. Hollywood makes movies to sell to American audiences, not to please history buffs like us, whatever our nationality.


D'accord.

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:31 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Christophe wrote:
As for the Duchess of Devonshire, I don't have a very high opinion either of her, or the new movie.

I must take issue with this myself. What exactly causes this low opinion of her? Have you read Amanda Foreman's biography?

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:50 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
I have nothing specific against her personally. It simply irritates me that she's held up as a fashion icon of the 18th Century, but all she did was wear French fashions inspired by Marie Antoinette. She supported the Whig party, who favored and espoused many of the same ideas as the French Revolution. In general, it irritates me that 18th Century Britian garners the most attention from historians and publishers, when it was France that exerted the greatest influence over the century. I'd much prefer to read a biography or watch a movie about the Duchesse de Polignac, Madame de La Tour du Pin, or the Princesse de Lamballe.

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:05 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
I think this is because America has a more Anglo-centric slant to its history and culture. France certainly has its place, too. Georgiana did wear many French fashions and popularised them in England, that is certain. But she also devised certain aspects to her coif and hats such as using fox plumes and blue feathers (Whig party) and dressing in the party colours. She was an important figurehead of her times. I do not think she really thought through some of the radical ideas of Fox, and neither did many party members or supporters. Her husband, the Duke, always sought to maintain the old order. Yet many French aristocrats also supported the ideals of the Revolution until they saw the light. In fact, I think Antoinette's sister Maria Carolina supported the Revolution until the death of her beloved Antoine.

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:59 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
I saw this movie today... It was much better than the Coppola film, I must say, but still not a masterpiece. Again, we must watch endless shots of people copulating and such, which bored me out of my skull. Again, just as in the Coppola film, many parts of the woman's life are rushed and vague. But towards the end of the film it develops a deeper meaning and it becomes very powerful. Other than that, the costumes were very nice to look at and it was a very beautiful film. To be fair, I don't really care Georgiana of Devonshire anyway.... :|


Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:
I saw this movie today... It was much better than the Coppola film, I must say, but still not a masterpiece. Again, we must watch endless shots of people copulating and such, which bored me out of my skull. Again, just as in the Coppola film, many parts of the woman's life are rushed and vague. But towards the end of the film it develops a deeper meaning and it becomes very powerful. Other than that, the costumes were very nice to look at and it was a very beautiful film. To be fair, I don't really care Georgiana of Devonshire anyway.... :|


Thank for your feedback on the film. I am not a big Georgiana fan, but I will probably go see it.

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:55 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
It's worth the money. At least it is not all vibrant pink and shots of Georgiana eating baked goods...! :lol:


Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:
I saw this movie today... It was much better than the Coppola film, I must say, but still not a masterpiece. Again, we must watch endless shots of people copulating and such, which bored me out of my skull.

I must say I did not see "endless shots of people copulating". We see Georgiana's deflowering on her wedding night, which serves to show some of the Duke's psychology, and it's hardly raunchy. Then we "hear" the Duke and Bess having sex and a marital rape. We also see Georgiana and Charles Grey in bed but it's hardly graphic. Perhaps I have a more liberal view on such things, but I found the love scene in Marie Antoinette to be more offensive.

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Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:13 pm
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Christophe wrote:
I have nothing specific against her personally. It simply irritates me that she's held up as a fashion icon of the 18th Century, but all she did was wear French fashions inspired by Marie Antoinette. She supported the Whig party, who favored and espoused many of the same ideas as the French Revolution. In general, it irritates me that 18th Century Britian garners the most attention from historians and publishers, when it was France that exerted the greatest influence over the century. I'd much prefer to read a biography or watch a movie about the Duchesse de Polignac, Madame de La Tour du Pin, or the Princesse de Lamballe.

Not to argue but
a) She wasnt the only person the do that....MA based her fashion on something
and b) I'm pretty sure she came up with her own stuff too.

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Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:01 am
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Post Re: Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire
Délicate fleur wrote:
Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:
I saw this movie today... It was much better than the Coppola film, I must say, but still not a masterpiece. Again, we must watch endless shots of people copulating and such, which bored me out of my skull.

I must say I did not see "endless shots of people copulating". We see Georgiana's deflowering on her wedding night, which serves to show some of the Duke's psychology, and it's hardly raunchy. Then we "hear" the Duke and Bess having sex and a marital rape. We also see Georgiana and Charles Grey in bed but it's hardly graphic. Perhaps I have a more liberal view on such things, but I found the love scene in Marie Antoinette to be more offensive.


It seemed almost endless to me. If they had cut out most of the sex scenes, they could have added something more interesting. They could have shown more of her role as a mother, or something.


Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:03 am
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