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 Marie Antoinette and Axel von Fersen 

Marie Antoinette and Axel von Fersen were lovers
Yes. 46%  46%  [ 36 ]
No. 38%  38%  [ 30 ]
I really don't know! 15%  15%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 78

 Marie Antoinette and Axel von Fersen 
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at the very least, we know there was an ongoing pretty close connection between them - after all, they kept close correspondence including political confidences for years; in the atmosphere, if that was known, I would expect it to be interpreted as an affair, true or not. the fact that there was silence on connection with Fersen shows the connection was not known; it doesn't really tell us much on the nature of the connection.

I don't agree with this. The most instructive in my view is the complete silence of Mercy and of Campan. However, Mercy mentions other people, as the Polignac, Lamballe, Ligne, Besenval, Vaudreuil... So does Campan.

There was a connetion between Marie Antoinette and Fersen, indeed... but wasn't there one between Louis and Fersen too ? And between Marie Antoinette and Gustav III ?

I say so because I read the correspondence between Marie Antoinette and Fersen. You do not find tender words at all... These letters are political ! They are less tender than the messages to the princesses de Hesse Darmstadt or Mme de Fitz James !

Joel Felix's recent book is very interesting on this account : in his view, Louis used Marie Antoinette as his emissary during the revolution. Marie Antoinette's letters to Fersen were thus teleguided by the king.

I don't know... Read those letters... you'll search in vain for tender words... All those tender lignes actually are those deleted ones, and one letter, that is coded and not in the queen's handwriting... That is to say : all those tender passages are but speculations !

As you said, Dorit, the important point in this relationship was Fersen's desastrous influence on Marie Antoinette. "This man exists for my unhappiness" the queen said about Bhoemer... Well... She'd better say so about Fersen, whose oldfashioned and radical ideals inspired this unfortunate Brunswick's manifesto...

But people want to dream... Write a serious and difficult book like the Girault de Coursac's ones. You won't sell it. Add Fersen and romantism and love and sobs and tragedy. You'll make a bestseller.

People want to read Marie Antoinette as they watch "Titanic".

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Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:31 pm
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Post good points
you know, that point about Mercy's and Campan's silents is a really good one, I haven't thought of that. how late was Mercy sending reports?


Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:37 pm
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The Empress died in 1780. But I guess Mercy wrote reports for Joseph, too. Mercy seemed to be more concerned about Madame de Polignac's influence and does mention hardly Fersen at all. And not just Mercy, but the other foreign ambassadors all wrote reports and had spies and paid servants to check the bedclothes. Fersen was never mentioned. It would have been impossible to be that discreet.

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Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:01 pm
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Mercy seemed to be more concerned about Madame de Polignac's influence and does mention hardly Fersen at all

As far as I have read, dear Therese, Fersen is not even mentioned in Mercy's reports.

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Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:04 pm
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Pimprenelle wrote:
Quote:
Mercy seemed to be more concerned about Madame de Polignac's influence and does mention hardly Fersen at all

As far as I have read, dear Therese, Fersen is not even mentioned in Mercy's reports.


LOL! That's what I thought, but I thought I would say"hardly" to be safe!!! :wink:

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Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:08 pm
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Indeed... Fersen is nowhere to be seen on Mercy's so precise reports, neither is his name on the lists of those people invited in Trianon.

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Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:11 pm
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Pimprenelle wrote:
Indeed... Fersen is nowhere to be seen on Mercy's so precise reports, neither is his name on the lists of those people invited in Trianon.


Really? I didn't know that. The whole Fersen romance story becomes more nonsensical all the time.

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Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:15 pm
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Interesting!


Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:57 pm
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Therese wrote:
I am reading Chalon's Chere marie-Antoinette and enjoying it immensely and it would not be the same in English. But there are good translators; Delorme's work has been translated and he is looking for a publisher. I wish Bertiere would follow suit....



Alas no ! I have not yet a translation and no publisher : If you think to one for me, it will be wonderful !

Sincerely

Philippe DELORME
http://www.philippedelorme.fr.st


Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:31 pm
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Oh, I am so sorry to hear that, Monsieur. We need your book here in America, where there is so much false information about the queen. I will let you know if I can think of any.

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Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:37 pm
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And in Australia too!

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Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:43 am
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Therese wrote:
Oh, I am so sorry to hear that, Monsieur. We need your book here in America, where there is so much false information about the queen. I will let you know if I can think of any.



Probably I would need a press agent to present my book(s) to US or English Publishers. In France, we have not this sort of agent. If somebody here know a good agent...
Thank you
Philippe Delorme


Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:26 pm
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Bonjour M. Delorme!

Reassure us that you're not just looking for a publisher here! We're so looking forward to sharing our views with you, come on, do blind us with your science! There's some great threads to get your teeth into!

P.S. En tant qu'anglais, je réfléchirai à votre demande, je poserai la question à des amis à Londres.

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Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:02 pm
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baron de batz wrote:
Bonjour M. Delorme!

Reassure us that you're not just looking for a publisher here! We're so looking forward to sharing our views with you, come on, do blind us with your science! There's some great threads to get your teeth into!

P.S. En tant qu'anglais, je réfléchirai à votre demande, je poserai la question à des amis à Londres.


Of course, if you want, I can participe in discussions about "our" queen. But, my english is really poor...

PHD


Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:55 pm
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Philippe Delorme! Nice to read you here! :D

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