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 Marie Antoinette and her brother Joseph 
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Post Marie Antoinette and her brother Joseph
MA's brother - Joseph always stated that he loved her, but there is one thing about him I don't like. I think he was manipulating her many times and was making a pressure on her refering to policy. Many times he asked her to influence on the king to do this and that. Joseph told her that she should make the greatest impact in history and he meant policy. Another time he, irritated, told her that they (the king and the rest of advisors) made her a fool in the matter of exchanging territories (Niderlands) by Joseph. One way or another he didn't allow Marie Antoinette to stay aside and be unpolitical.


Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:46 pm
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Yes Torin I agree… Joseph liked his sister, but he liked her for the advantages that she could have for him and for Austria.
Joseph was like his mother: he lived for the policy: the family passed afterwards. But I think that he nevertheless appreciated Marie-Antoinette her small sister :wink:
He did not hate her. :lol:

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Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:11 pm
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What I don't understand is why didn't he send help to M.A. and offer to escort the Royal Family out of France into Austria? Or perhaps I'm being naive... :?


Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:12 pm
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Joseph was a royalist, and he wanted to avoid mixing with the dangerous French revolution… and especially Joseph died in 1790 thus at the beginning of the revolution… he did not have time to try something. His brother Léopold II who succeeded him died at the end of 1791, and the son of LéopoldII, François II, who succeeded him in his turn did not want to save his aunt Marie-Antoinette… :?

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Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:39 pm
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She had no possible reveue for help then. No one to turn to... :(


Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:33 pm
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Some good of the Brunswick Manifesto! :x La Reine was a victim of politics.


Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:38 am
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Please Arietta elaborate! What is the Brunswick Manifesto? :?


Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:44 am
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It is Brunswick, a general of the Prussian army who sent this proclamation to the French Republic. This proclamation was very aggressive and he threatened Paris to be attacked and ransacked by the army Prussian if Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette were still attacked. This proclamation was very dangerous for the royal family, because the revolutionists were afraid, but they were not let intimidate and they reinforced their policy of terror in France, and monitoring of the royal family. This proclamation was thus more harmful than good for Marie-Antoinette and Louis XVI. :?

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Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:03 am
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Right, so big fear of revolutionists caused quick steps to kill the queen as soon as possible. This manifesto cased big harm to the queen.
Besides too many people had own interests not to save her, even royalists. So sad.


Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:49 am
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Louis XVI wrote:
What I don't understand is why didn't he send help to M.A. and offer to escort the Royal Family out of France into Austria? Or perhaps I'm being naive... :?


Joseph died in 1790, I think he couldn't imagine the real situation in France and he just suggested to her sister to resist. After his death his brother, Leopold (who was not very interested in M.A.'s destiny), never offered her his protection. The Savoia family in Turin hosted the Count and the Countess of Artois, as the countess came from Turin: the result was that the first victim of the revolutionary army abroad was the reign of Savoy! I think that Habsburg refused to host M.A. and the king because they were afraid of the effects of revolution out of France... :shock:

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Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:29 pm
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Yes it is very sad. :( Even people who supported them did not want to take on the responsibility of transporting them from France, lest they get mixed up in the bloodiness of the Revolution.

And as for the Brunswick manifesto, it actually harmed them because it intimitaded the revolutionaries. If anything it sped up the process. (By the way, what year was this manifesto?)
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Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:05 pm
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*Digs out intro. Western Civ. history college textbook* 1792


Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:17 pm
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I don't think any of the foreign powers would have helped for purely altruistic reasons. They'd have helped if they'd seen an interest in doing so. Sad but unfortunately only a simple consequence of politics and human nature.
Count Mercy, who had personaly known Antoinette and Louis for years, wasn't in any hurry to compromise his political future for their sakes. So what could be expected of Leopold, who after all didn't know his sister or brother in law.

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Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:57 pm
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Indeed Merteuil, Mercy was quickly hurried to flee Paris when all was badly, by leaving his "protected” Marie-Antoinette to her sad fate... :?

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Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:26 am
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It must have been very interesting to witness the effect on the young 21 year old Queen during the visit of her brother. This somewhat eccentric man, non-conformist and simple in his tastes, opted to stay in an inn in Versailles during his stay and polished his own boots for example and slept under a fur that he always carried with him! He was extremely interested in and well informed on the scientific and technological achievements of the French nation, and visited a number of important factories, hospitals, botanical gardens in and around Paris etc during his stay. This made quite an impression on the French people. And then you had this admiring beautiful young Queen, at the very height of her insecurity, her marriage unconsummated, her life a series of fairly empty amusements, childless, apprehenensive as to what he would say and yet at the same time wishing her elder brother to see and appreciate the things that were important to her in her new French life, no doubt observing closely his every reaction, and nervous of his judgement concerning la Duchesse de Polignac, or others from her private circle, that he was of course aware of through Mercy's correspondence to Marie Thérèse. A nervous little sister and Sovereign, knowing that the telling off is coming, inevitable, sensitive to the point of tears, and suddenly confronted with the reality, flesh and blood, of her earlier and oh so much happier Austrian life, which puts into such sharp perspective the futility and terrible cattiness of this Versailles court. And he calls her "Antonia"....

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Tue May 29, 2007 2:44 pm
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