Marie Antoinette Online Forum
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The Royal Aunts
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=604
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Author:  Ludy [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Ray wrote:
Regarding the aunts, I have heard that they were not nice to her as well. I read that it was one of them who actually coined the phrase 'L'Autrichienne' which is cetainly not nice...


Madame Adélaïde while waiting for MA's arrival at Compiègne, was asked if she had any advice to give (a traditional question). Hostile as she was to the Austrian alliance, she snapped "if I had any, it wouldn't be to fetch that Austrian girl". Then, when she was no longer "persona grata" at the court, she began to criticize MA regularly, especially emphazising on her Austrian origins.

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Ludy wrote:
Ray wrote:
Regarding the aunts, I have heard that they were not nice to her as well. I read that it was one of them who actually coined the phrase 'L'Autrichienne' which is cetainly not nice...


Madame Adélaïde while waiting for MA's arrival at Compiègne, was asked if she had any advice to give (a traditional question). Hostile as she was to the Austrian alliance, she snapped "if I had any, it wouldn't be to fetch that Austrian girl". Then, when she was no longer "persona grata" at the court, she began to criticize MA regularly, especially emphazising on her Austrian origins.

And what about her mother's origins? :P
Just goes to show, people will pick on you for the stupidest reasons.

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Apparently, the aunts did indeed manage to escape to Rome. They just barely escaped though.

Author:  Lilly [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

I think that these Aunts used Marie Antoinette as a form of cruel amusement for themselves. Attitudes towards Austrians were at best far from pretty.
This was a 14 year old girl coming to a completely foriegn country alone. These Aunties being grown women, born and bred in the court of Versailles and fully knowing the ways of their country, took this little girl under their wing and made her trust them. I am sure they had a certain amount of genuine concern for her, but only after their own needs. It was them who started the trouble about Marie Antoinette not speaking to Madame DuBarry, because the Auntie's had a bone to pick with DuBarry and they used Marie Antoinette to do it. They mocked and made fun of her when she'd leave their apartments and it was them who steered her in whatever direction benefitted their views, even if it got her in trouble. They laughed behind her back and called her names. Remember, these are grown women treating a 14 year old this way. They absolutely helped to spread negative opinions of this young girl. And they did cause harm to her in the longrun.

These Aunt's are buried at Saint Denis also.

Author:  reine [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Lilly wrote:
I think that these Aunts used Marie Antoinette as a form of cruel amusement for themselves. Attitudes towards Austrians were at best far from pretty.
This was a 14 year old girl coming to a completely foriegn country alone. These Aunties being grown women, born and bred in the court of Versailles and fully knowing the ways of their country, took this little girl under their wing and made her trust them. I am sure they had a certain amount of genuine concern for her, but only after their own needs. It was them who started the trouble about Marie Antoinette not speaking to Madame DuBarry, because the Auntie's had a bone to pick with DuBarry and they used Marie Antoinette to do it. They mocked and made fun of her when she'd leave their apartments and it was them who steered her in whatever direction benefitted their views, even if it got her in trouble. They laughed behind her back and called her names. Remember, these are grown women treating a 14 year old this way. They absolutely helped to spread negative opinions of this young girl. And they did cause harm to her in the longrun.

These Aunt's are buried at Saint Denis also.


exactly... you are absolutly right

reine :angel6:

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Another ironic thing is that Antoinette was more French than Louis was! Her father Francis I was the duke of Lorraine. Louis mother was Polish. I forget specifically how Antoinette was more French then Louis was.

Author:  Ludy [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Hellou_Librorum wrote:
Another ironic thing is that Antoinette was more French than Louis was! Her father Francis I was the duke of Lorraine. Louis mother was Polish. I forget specifically how Antoinette was more French then Louis was.


Louis's mother was Marie Josèphe de Saxe, a German princess, and it is thanks to his grandmother, Marie Leczinska, that Lorraine became part of France, since it had been given to Stanislas Leczinski, after the unsuccessful war for the Polish throne. Marie-Antoinette's father indeed bore the name "von Lothringen", but I am not sure it was anything more than an honorific title. That being said, Franz Stephen indeed had a French mother, but apparently an Austrian father, and it seems that his mother tongue was French. To sum it up, the royalties' origins were so intermingled, that I find it hard to say who was "more French". Besides, religion and title were more important that nationality, which is quite a revolutionnary notion.

Author:  Anouk [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Ludy wrote:

Marie-Antoinette's father indeed bore the name "von Lothringen", but I am not sure it was anything more than an honorific title. That being said, Franz Stephen indeed had a French mother, but apparently an Austrian father, and it seems that his mother tongue was French.


Franz' mother (MA's grandmother) was Elizabeth Charlotte, princesse d'Orléans. She was an aunt of Louis XV. So Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI were approximatively relatives... I think our Antoinette resembled a bit Elizabeth Charlotte.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elisa ... rleans.jpg

Franz' father was Leopold Joseph, duke of Lorraine who was born in Innsbruck.

I believe they were about equally French. But it is hard to explore... need a historian.

Author:  Arietta [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

Author Catherine Delors has been doing a series of posts about the aunts and their mother on her blog. Here's the newest one:
[url]blog.catherinedelors.com/2008/12/11/madame-adelaide-daughter-of-louis-xv.aspx[/url]
Enjoy!

Author:  Anouk [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Royal Aunts

I love this blog, thank you very much, Arietta.

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