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annies sis
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:36 am Posts: 370 Location: America
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 Murder
We all know that poor Madame Royale died childless. She had only one miscarrige in her life. What I wonder is that do you think that if she would have had that child that the revolutionaries would have killed it? Do you think they would have wanted to end the Bourbon line right there> End it with the poor oldest child of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette?
_________________ Have hope
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Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:22 am |
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Anouk
Royalty
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:45 pm Posts: 944 Location: Hungary
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 Re: Murder
I think she would have mentioned it in her memoires... if it had happened. I don't know. Of course, everything's possible 
_________________ "Ceux qui n'ont pas vécu avant 1789, ne connaissent pas la douceur de vivre" Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord
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Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:27 am |
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dreamoutloud
Duc/Duchesse
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:14 pm Posts: 179
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 Re: Murder
When was her miscarriage?
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Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:01 pm |
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annies sis
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:36 am Posts: 370 Location: America
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 Re: Murder
I dont remember the exact time. can i get help?
_________________ Have hope
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Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:21 pm |
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Délicate fleur
Royalty
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 am Posts: 1064 Location: Australia
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 Re: Murder
My understanding is she never consumated her relationship with the Duc d'Angouleme and if she did, "She never had any children due to her bizarre and unhappy marriage, but loved her niece and nephew, Louise d'Artois and the Comte de Chambord, as her own." http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/01/duchesse-of-angouleme-daughter-of-marie.html
_________________ “Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.” - Germaine de Staël
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:56 am |
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annies sis
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:36 am Posts: 370 Location: America
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 Re: Murder
thank you very much fleur. that site was very helpful. See, the only reason i bring this up is that i saw that she had a miscarrige on Wikipedia.com
_________________ Have hope
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:52 am |
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Délicate fleur
Royalty
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 am Posts: 1064 Location: Australia
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 Re: Murder
Perhaps you should cite your sources in the future to make it easier for others to understand.
_________________ “Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.” - Germaine de Staël
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:34 am |
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annies sis
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:36 am Posts: 370 Location: America
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 Re: Murder
_________________ Have hope
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:09 am |
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Délicate fleur
Royalty
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 am Posts: 1064 Location: Australia
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 Re: Murder
Please be a bit more definitive, dear. What page on Wikipedia?
_________________ “Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.” - Germaine de Staël
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:18 am |
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annies sis
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:36 am Posts: 370 Location: America
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 Re: Murder
No particular page, just type in Mdame Royal in the search box
_________________ Have hope
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:31 pm |
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ShaktiValkyrie
Marquis/Marquise
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:14 am Posts: 98 Location: Colorado
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 Re: Murder
In Marie Therese Child of Terror by Susan Nagel She does confirm that Madame Royal did suffer a miscarriage. I will write the two paragraphs, please forgive any misspellings. This is on page 247. (I was very luck to get an advanced reading copy, it advises that it not be quoted from as this is not the finalized version. However, I think it's ok here. LOL. The bummer part is that it dosen't come with the 16 page color insert. So if you look and see that it's on a different page that's why.) Quote: As she turned 34, on December 19, 1812, Marie Therese seemed overflowing with happiness. On January 27, 1813, Princess Charlotte gave a ball and noticed that d'Angoulême too was in high spirits. In a letter dated February 7 to her friend, Miss Mercer Elphinstone, the English princess made a special note that at her grand fete, d'Angoulême proved to be a wonderful dance partner. Marie Therese's' doctor Monsieur Lefebvre, knew the reason for the couples ebullience, and as he would explain to Hue that January: 'At this moment, I am tending to a woman who lives above me and who is pregnant for the first time after more than thirteen years of marriage.' On January 30, Hue wrote to his wife that Dr Lefebvre had given him the miraculous news that the Duc d'Angoulême would be a father in June. The doctor confirmed this in his own handwriting on the same letter. Madame Hue received the note and added a formal sentence on the parer: 'Monsieur Hue and Monsieur Lefebvre designate Madame the Duchesse d'Angoulême, announcing her pregnancy.' On February 15, 1813, Louise de Conde wrote to her father that she was stunned to hear of the pregnancy as she had heard for years that, while Marie Therese had been in the Temple Prison, the Jacobin guards had bragged about destroying her fertility with a combination of drugs. Marie Therese's joy was to be short lived. Quite a few months into the pregnancy, she suffered a miscarriage and that summer left for Bath to recuperate. There is a sadder entry that when she was 42 she had no doubts that she was pregnant. Though many were skeptical. After a couple of months though many conceded that she was indeed pregnant James Gallatin recorded in this diary that on February 16 there was; ' a magnificent ball at the Tulleries...the Duchesse d'Angoulême was superbly regal; her train of white velvet thickly embroidered with gold fluers-de-lys with a broad gold border, lined and faced with ermine; her dress entirely of superb lace, which they told me had belonged to her mother; the highest diadem of emeralds and diamonds that I have ever seen, it was quite four inches. A veil of superb hung down below her shoulders, a belt and stomacher of diamonds and one enormous emerald in the center; from the shoulders hug great strings of diamonds. (I included that because she sounds so beautiful!!) Nagel says," Marie Therese was radiant, and then subsequently devastated when it became clear that she was not pregnant at all. She had mistaken the symptoms of the onset of menopause. Her childbearing days were now over." Page 291-292. Hope that has helped! 
_________________ "The fragrance always stays in the hand that gives the rose." ~~Hada Bejar
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Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:04 am |
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ShaktiValkyrie
Marquis/Marquise
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:14 am Posts: 98 Location: Colorado
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 Re: Murder
I just realized that I didn't answer your question. Sorry about that! I think by the time she got pregnant, she was at a place ( I can't remember where) where it would have been relatively safe for the baby. The timing was also about the time that 90% of the people started to almost deify her. Instead of the "scum" people said she was just a few years prior, she was now being called " the Miracle Child".
_________________ "The fragrance always stays in the hand that gives the rose." ~~Hada Bejar
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Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:12 pm |
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Therese
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 2266
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 Re: Murder
In this interview Susan Nagel confirms to Madame Vidal that the Angouleme marriage was consummated. http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... marie.html According to other historians, the Duke of Angouleme was neurasthenic and frequently had problems with impotence. The fact that scholars have not been certain whether the marriage was consummated at all shows that it probably was not a very passionate marriage. Yes, in the Nagel book, it says that at age 42 MTC thought she might be pregnant, but she was not. Sad. Motherhood would have been very healing for her. 
_________________ I forgive all my enemies the harm they have done me.
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Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:49 pm |
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Therese
Prince/Princesse
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 2266
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 Re: Murder
ShaktiValkyrie wrote: I just realized that I didn't answer your question. Sorry about that! I think by the time she got pregnant, she was at a place ( I can't remember where) where it would have been relatively safe for the baby. The timing was also about the time that 90% of the people started to almost deify her. Instead of the "scum" people said she was just a few years prior, she was now being called " the Miracle Child". The Duc de Bordeaux, son of the Duc de Berry, born after he was murdered, is usually called the "Miracle Child."
_________________ I forgive all my enemies the harm they have done me.
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Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:51 pm |
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ShaktiValkyrie
Marquis/Marquise
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:14 am Posts: 98 Location: Colorado
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 Re: Murder
Thanks for that correction! I don't have my books near me when I'm at the computer, so I didn't have the ref with me. I knew they called her something, I thought it was that, but nope. Again, thanks for that!
I agree with you also that motherhood probably would have been a real blessing for her!
_________________ "The fragrance always stays in the hand that gives the rose." ~~Hada Bejar
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Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:37 pm |
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