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Murder
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1342
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Author:  annies sis [ Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Murder

We all know that poor Madame Royale died childless. She had only one miscarrige in her life. What I wonder is that do you think that if she would have had that child that the revolutionaries would have killed it? Do you think they would have wanted to end the Bourbon line right there> End it with the poor oldest child of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette?

Author:  Anouk [ Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

I think she would have mentioned it in her memoires... if it had happened. I don't know. Of course, everything's possible :?:

Author:  dreamoutloud [ Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

When was her miscarriage?

Author:  annies sis [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

I dont remember the exact time. can i get help?

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

My understanding is she never consumated her relationship with the Duc d'Angouleme and if she did, "She never had any children due to her bizarre and unhappy marriage, but loved her niece and nephew, Louise d'Artois and the Comte de Chambord, as her own." http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/01/duchesse-of-angouleme-daughter-of-marie.html

Author:  annies sis [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

thank you very much fleur. that site was very helpful. See, the only reason i bring this up is that i saw that she had a miscarrige on Wikipedia.com

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

Perhaps you should cite your sources in the future to make it easier for others to understand.

Author:  annies sis [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

sorry. it was on

www.wikipedia.com

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

Please be a bit more definitive, dear. What page on Wikipedia?

Author:  annies sis [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

No particular page, just type in Mdame Royal in the search box

Author:  ShaktiValkyrie [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

In Marie Therese Child of Terror by Susan Nagel
She does confirm that Madame Royal did suffer a miscarriage. I will write the two paragraphs, please forgive any misspellings. This is on page 247. (I was very luck to get an advanced reading copy, it advises that it not be quoted from as this is not the finalized version. However, I think it's ok here. LOL. The bummer part is that it dosen't come with the 16 page color insert. So if you look and see that it's on a different page that's why.)
Quote:
As she turned 34, on December 19, 1812, Marie Therese seemed overflowing with happiness. On January 27, 1813, Princess Charlotte gave a ball and noticed that d'Angoulême too was in high spirits. In a letter dated February 7 to her friend, Miss Mercer Elphinstone, the English princess made a special note that at her grand fete, d'Angoulême
proved to be a wonderful dance partner. Marie Therese's' doctor Monsieur Lefebvre, knew the reason for the couples ebullience, and as he would explain to Hue that January: 'At this moment, I am tending to a woman who lives above me and who is pregnant for the first time after more than thirteen years of marriage.'
On January 30, Hue wrote to his wife that Dr Lefebvre had given him the miraculous news that the Duc d'Angoulême would be a father in June. The doctor confirmed this in his own handwriting on the same letter. Madame Hue received the note and added a formal sentence on the parer: 'Monsieur Hue and Monsieur Lefebvre designate Madame the Duchesse d'Angoulême, announcing her pregnancy.' On February 15, 1813, Louise de Conde wrote to her father that she was stunned to hear of the pregnancy as she had heard for years that, while Marie Therese had been in the Temple Prison, the Jacobin guards had bragged about destroying her fertility with a combination of drugs. Marie Therese's joy was to be short lived. Quite a few months into the pregnancy, she suffered a miscarriage and that summer left for Bath to recuperate.


There is a sadder entry that when she was 42 she had no doubts that she was pregnant. Though many were skeptical. After a couple of months though many conceded that she was indeed pregnant
James Gallatin recorded in this diary that on February 16 there was; 'a magnificent ball at the Tulleries...the Duchesse d'Angoulême was superbly regal; her train of white velvet thickly embroidered with gold fluers-de-lys with a broad gold border, lined and faced with ermine; her dress entirely of superb lace, which they told me had belonged to her mother; the highest diadem of emeralds and diamonds that I have ever seen, it was quite four inches. A veil of superb hung down below her shoulders, a belt and stomacher of diamonds and one enormous emerald in the center; from the shoulders hug great strings of diamonds.
(I included that because she sounds so beautiful!!)

Nagel says,"Marie Therese was radiant, and then subsequently devastated when it became clear that she was not pregnant at all. She had mistaken the symptoms of the onset of menopause. Her childbearing days were now over." Page 291-292.


Hope that has helped! :)

Author:  ShaktiValkyrie [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

I just realized that I didn't answer your question. Sorry about that!
I think by the time she got pregnant, she was at a place ( I can't remember where) where it would have been relatively safe for the baby. The timing was also about the time that 90% of the people started to almost deify her. Instead of the "scum" people said she was just a few years prior, she was now being called " the Miracle Child".

Author:  Therese [ Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

In this interview Susan Nagel confirms to Madame Vidal that the Angouleme marriage was consummated.
http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... marie.html

According to other historians, the Duke of Angouleme was neurasthenic and frequently had problems with impotence. The fact that scholars have not been certain whether the marriage was consummated at all shows that it probably was not a very passionate marriage.

Yes, in the Nagel book, it says that at age 42 MTC thought she might be pregnant, but she was not. Sad. Motherhood would have been very healing for her. :(

Author:  Therese [ Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

ShaktiValkyrie wrote:
I just realized that I didn't answer your question. Sorry about that!
I think by the time she got pregnant, she was at a place ( I can't remember where) where it would have been relatively safe for the baby. The timing was also about the time that 90% of the people started to almost deify her. Instead of the "scum" people said she was just a few years prior, she was now being called " the Miracle Child".



The Duc de Bordeaux, son of the Duc de Berry, born after he was murdered, is usually called the "Miracle Child."

Author:  ShaktiValkyrie [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murder

Thanks for that correction! I don't have my books near me when I'm at the computer, so I didn't have the ref with me. I knew they called her something, I thought it was that, but nope. Again, thanks for that!

I agree with you also that motherhood probably would have been a real blessing for her!

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