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 Riped? 
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Post Riped?
Anyone knows if madame royale was riped when she was separated from her family?what do u think?i think is possible she was riped and maybe after this she cannot have baby in future,she was married with duque of angulema,but i think they never had baby..i think she never can live a normal life,she was marked for rest of her life with all the pain and trauma :cry:


Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:21 am
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The Madame Royale case is very complex… yes there is an assumption according to which she was substituted at the time of her exile for Vienna after her release of the Temple….but nothing is still proven…
And if the duchess of Angoulème is Madame Royale, she did never had children with the Duke of Angoulème who was impotent :?

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Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:43 am
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Do you mean "raped?" No one really knows what happened to Marie-Therese-Charlotte when she was alone all those months. Just being under the threat of molestation may have shattered her nerves. She was very jumpy for the rest of her life.

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Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:43 pm
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Knowing what was done to her brother - or at least what he'd been forced to say - must have been incredibly difficult for her. I don't know if she was abused or not .. I've never seen anything on the subject. Surely if she had been she would later have tried to get justice for herself? Unless she did not consider it an appropriate thing to talk about. But I am widely speculating here - like I said, I've never read anything to suggest that she was abused.

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Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:03 pm
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Moose wrote:
Knowing what was done to her brother - or at least what he'd been forced to say - must have been incredibly difficult for her. I don't know if she was abused or not .. I've never seen anything on the subject. Surely if she had been she would later have tried to get justice for herself? Unless she did not consider it an appropriate thing to talk about. But I am widely speculating here - like I said, I've never read anything to suggest that she was abused.



So what bios and memoirs have you read of the princess?

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Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:21 pm
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There's not much to suggest that she was raped, but considering what else they did to her and her brother, I wouldn't put it past them.


Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:54 pm
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I presume, Therese, that your comment is intended to mean 'I don't think you've read anything about the Princess' and you're quite right, I know little about her personally .. only things read as footnotes in bios of her parents.

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Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:39 pm
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Moose wrote:
I presume, Therese, that your comment is intended to mean 'I don't think you've read anything about the Princess' and you're quite right, I know little about her personally .. only things read as footnotes in bios of her parents.


Not exactly what I meant, dear. You just seemed so sure that I was wondering.

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Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:23 pm
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This history of substitution still remains a mystery and nothing is proven… Monique de Huertas speaks about it in her biography of Marie-Thérèse, and Castelot too, but they seem not very sure… :?

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Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:28 pm
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I am sorry, L-C. There is no mystery. The entire family recognized MTC as the Duchesse d'Angouleme.

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Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:57 pm
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I agree that it is almost impossible, but the doubt exists nevertheless. Monique de Huertas and Castelot spoke about it, and a French forum devotes part of these subjects… research are organized...but I am also more and more skeptic :?

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Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:04 pm
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Moose - you should try to read "The Narrative of Marie Thérèse". It is so fascinating to read!! She wrote part one of her narrative - which is about what took place from October 5th 1789 to August 10th - in 1799, when she was married to her cousin. She began to write the second part of the narrative in Le Temple in 1795 after the death of her brother.
If you cannot get the book (The Ruin of a Princess - translated into english by a Katherine Prescott Wormely) - you can find it on the internet. Google "Celebration of Woman Writers" and you can look under France - and you will find it under Angouleme, Marie Thérèse.
On that same page you will also find "Life and Letters" by Princess Elisabeth and "Journey of the Tower of le Temple" by Cléry.
I found this page a year ago and I was extastic to have found it and I've been reading it many times.

Just to give a small example of some of the things Marie Thérèse wrote: (this is some of her memories from May 9th, 1794 - when they came to take her aunt Elisabeth from her)

“My aunt kissed me and told me to be calm and that she would return soon. ‘No, citoyenne, you will not return’. They said to her ‘take your cap and come down’. They loaded her with insults and coarse speeches, she bore it all with patience, took her cap; kissed me again and told me to have courage and firmness, to hope always in God, to practise the good principles of religion given me by my parents, and not to fail in the last constructions given to me by father and mother…”

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Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:30 am
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Louis-Charles wrote:
...but I am also more and more skeptic :?


Good. :wink:

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Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:07 am
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i hope she wasnt...that would be terrible!!!!!!


Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:20 am
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I would have preferred that Marie-Thérèse could live a calm and quiet life, less animated than the life of the Duchess of Angoulème… but the probabilities (real probabilities Pim :wink: ) are reduced...

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Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:31 am
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