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Marie-Thérèse de Savoie Artois
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=304
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Author:  Therese [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:47 pm ]
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Well, Provence always claimed his marriage was consummated, although some historians think he may have had problems with impotence, possibly due to diabetes. Or he may have had some other physical defect.... I have read *somewhere* that Madame may have been pregnant once, but miscarried.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:12 pm ]
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Quote:
I have read *somewhere* that Madame may have been pregnant once, but miscarried.


Really? I had never read this assumption but it's interesting :D
The major part of the historians affirm indeed that their marriage was never consumed only once.
Provence, in more of physical problems, would have been retained by the lack of hygiene of his wife. :?

Author:  Therese [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:18 pm ]
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Oh, yes, Marie-Josephine did not like to bath. She also dranked to excess, and in later years became obsessively attached to one lady, Madame de Gourbillon, with whom she lived for many years, until Provence forced her to join him in Mitau, for the sake of appearances.

I read about her miscarriage somewhere on the internet. I will try find the link......

Author:  Therese [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:23 pm ]
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Here it is:

http://www.batguano.com/cdeprovence.html

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:04 am ]
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And there are many pictures of her here.

After her first night with the Comtesse de Provence, the Comte said that he were "4 times happy", but he probably lied...

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:14 am ]
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Thank you Thérèse for this site!
It's indeed the first time that I read that, I will try to look for in my books if I find this information.

Indeed Victoire-Adelaide, Provence frankly exaggerated the result of his first night with his wife :?

Author:  Therese [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:56 pm ]
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Yes, I have never read that information except on that site. Also, I read that Marie-Josephine had been told since childhood that she would marry the dauphin and be queen of France someday, which is one of the reasons that she resented Marie-Antoinette. Have any of you heard that?

Great pictures, V-A!

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:56 pm ]
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I had either never read it.

But we know that Marie-Caroline would have to marry Louis-Auguste, if her Marie-Thérèse sister had not died of the "petite vérole".
I always read that Louis XV wanted to marry Louis-Auguste with an Autrichienne princess. :)

But indeed the Comtesse de Provence was jealous of the good reputation of Marie-Antoinette, and her place on the throne. :wink:

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:51 pm ]
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I have read that Marie-Josephe's father said to his daughter, when she went to France, that se could become Queen of France if Louis-Auguste would die. I think that she had this secret desire.

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:58 pm ]
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Therese wrote:
Great pictures, V-A!


Thank you. :) But it seems that Marie-Josèphe wasn't beautiful. But I think that she was also calumniated, when the scandalmongers said that she had a hairy chest... She was certainly Italian and she had the brown hair, but I don't believe this rumours... :roll:

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:59 pm ]
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Quote:
I think that she had this secret desire.


Exactly like her husband (even if for Provence it was not a secret :lol: )

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:20 pm ]
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Exactly like her husband (even if for Provence it was not a secret :lol: )


Yes, but he had the chance to reign, in the Restauration. Marie-Josèphe was only a "Reine titulaire", after the death of Louis XVII. She died in 1810, 4 years before the reign of Provence.
Marie-Thérèse, the Comtesse d'Artois, died in 1805, 20 years before the reign of Charles X. That's why the sisters aren't really regarded as queens, today.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:35 pm ]
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The duchesse d'Angoulème either is not really looked like a Reine of France, whereas she was the woman of Louis XIX during 20 minutes :D

Author:  Therese [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:39 pm ]
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In her old age, the Duchesse d' Angouleme was often referred to as Queen Marie-Therese by die-hard monarchists, but she was, of course, an uncrowned and exiled queen.

The Duchesse cared for her aunt Marie-Josephine while in exile at Hartwell House in England during the latter's last illness. The "Queen" of Louis XVIII said to the daughter of Louis XVI, "All you need to go to heaven is a pair of wings."

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:40 pm ]
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For the historians, the last Queen of France is Marie-Antoinette. Her niece Marie-Amélie de Bourbon-Sicile, the duchesse d'Orléans, was Queen of the French.

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