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 Marie Therese Charlotte, Marie Antoinette's daughter 
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york74 wrote:
Hi!

I e-mailed Susan Nagel regarding her upcoming Marie-Therese biography.
Here's what she kindly replied:

"...I will tell you that I do discuss the switch (Marie-Therese's substitution theory) in the book, but I cannot (or my publisher will kill me) divulge my results. Unfortunately, you will have to wait until then...I do have a lot of material that has never been seen before as I am a friend of a man who is a direct descendant of the comte de Chambord's sister, Louise."


Oh, it sounds like she is friends with that Austrian count who believes in the susbstitution theory. I know of him and his theory. He is a very devout man, very charming. I have his book. It is not very credible, though, from an historical point of view. Oh, no, I hope she is not basing it on his "research."

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Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:20 pm
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I have "Death Knows No secrets" by Count Nicky zu Elst. A wonderful man, related to the Habsburgs, but it is easy to take his theory apart from a historical point of view. He claims that MTC Madame Royale was called "Mousseline" because she was sweet and gentle and MTC the Duchesse was harsh and bitter, and so they are two different women. Well, Madame Royale was called "Mousseline la Serieuse" becuase she was already showing signs of solemn gravity, one of the main characteristics of the Duchesse. Also, the count insists that Louis XVI had an affair with a serving maid. I have trouble believing that, especially when later he would not take a mistress even to save his kingdom. There is a claim that the inscription on the tomb of the Duchesse was a sign of her egotism: "All ye who pass by the way, attend, and see, if there be any sorrow like unto her sorrow." But it was her nephew Henri who had that inscription put on the tomb, and it truly describes the sorrows of Madame Royale.

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Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:40 pm
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Thérèse, do you know whether that wedding band of MA and Louis XVI that MT died kissing still exists? That would be so fascinating to know that such a famous ring was in some museum somewhere.

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Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:15 pm
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The Habsburgs have most of the things that belonged to Marie-Therese. Otto von Habsburg once came to near where I live with some artifacts that belonged to Marie-Antoinette, including the queen's watch that the Duchesse d'Angouleme had worn as well. I do not know what happened to that ring (the one MTC embraced as she died) but I imagine the Habsburgs have it.

I am really upset about the Nagel book. I was hoping for a scholarly, thorough biographical account of the princess' life, not a novel disguised as a serious biography, based on a myth. I hope it proves to be better than it sounds.

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Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:26 pm
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Are there direct relations of Marie Antoinette from her mother or father's side alive today? I imagine there are as she has so many brothers and sisters. Are they still in Vienna?

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Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:19 pm
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Oh, yes, the Habsburg family is still a prolific and prominent family in Austria. Archduke Otto is the oldest son of the last emperor and many people view him as the true heir to the throne of the Caesars. Otto has 11 children and his oldest son Archduke Karl is married and has his own growing family.

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Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:23 pm
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So would Karl be a great great etc nephew to MA or a cousin or something? Can one say that genetically the same blood runs in their veins?

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:25 pm
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Oh, yes, a great-gr-gr-gr nephew, to be sure. He is a direct descendant of MA's brother Leopold.

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:36 pm
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I remember watching a TV show called "Royal Families of the World" while in college. One show featured the Austrian royal family.


Oh, E.M. Vidal posted about an ancient statue of Our Lady that Mme Royale prayed while attending Mass at Notre Dame.


Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:19 pm
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Fraser gives an anecdote that I did not know in her biography : few days after the death of Louis XVI, Marie-Antoinette was in a very important state of sadness and she seemed lost… Madame Royale would have, on January 15, called to her mother that she had a wound in the foot, with relief because she hoped that Marie-Antoinette left this torpor to deal with this wound… sad this anecdote… and astonishing ...dear Madame Royale :wink:

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:44 pm
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Yes, she was glad that her mother would be distracted by caring for her.

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Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:51 pm
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wow that makes me want to cry :cry:

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Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:09 am
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Ah indeed... :wink:

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Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:44 am
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Did anyone see this on E.M. Vidal's blog? It's incredible how people get taken about an absurd theory!

http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... heory.html


Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:50 pm
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I had actually. Glad she's fighting the ridicoulous theory. It really isn't very likely at all...

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I was a queen, and you took away my crown; a wife, and you killed my husband; a mother, and you deprived me of my children. My blood alone remains: take it, but do not make me suffer long.


Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:34 am
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