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 Louis Charles duke of Normandie 

Do you know the imaginary life of the heir Louis Charles that changed his name in Naundorff?
Yes, surely! 47%  47%  [ 8 ]
A bit, but I don't know many particulars of the fact. 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
No,I never listened this story! I only knew he was died in the prison in 1795. 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17

 Louis Charles duke of Normandie 
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Thank you, CrY. I have read about this in English and it is now the current trend. All I am saying is that the heart (which they claim to be that of the heir) was removed in 1795 under suspect circumstances from a child whom no family member identified as being Louis XVII. Years later, the heart was presented in a reliquary to Marie-Therese and she would not accept it since she did not know for certain that it was really her brother who had died there. Yes, the DNA matches with Marie-Antoinette's, so of course that seems to prove everything.

However, there were rumors as early as the 1794 that the dauphin had been exchanged with a child who was a close relative, who resembled him, although a few years older (the illegitimate offspring of a royal, perhaps.) Several people who saw the child in prison said that he looked much older than ten, and later in the 1840's when the body was exhumed, it was said by the forensic experts at the time that the body was that of a fifteen year old, keeping in mind that TB does cause elongation of the bones. There is enough of a mystery for Deborah Cadbury to write a book about it, although she makes concedes to the conclusions of the recent DNA tests.

My point is that this situation is much more complicated and fraught with unanswered questions than the general public is led to believe.


Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:32 pm
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I cannot vote in the poll above because while I do not believe Naundorff to be the Dauphin, there were other claimants.


Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:34 pm
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I agree with you, Therese, this whole story is very very complicated ! There were so many political interests, as for Madame Royale. I read the book about her by Monique de Huertas, very interesting. Mousseline never reached Austria, she said, another girl married duke of Angoulème.

I don't know if it is true, of course... but I wonder... If true, this poor Mousseline never enjoyed a peaceful life. She had to hide her whole life long...

So, even if the little dauphin was rescued... what happened to this boy ? He had lost everything, could not see her sister again, had no more family... was no one's "chou d'amour" more, anyway...

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:27 pm
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yes we could not know everything..we can only suppose or image..


Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:02 pm
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Yes, very true, my friends. We can only imagine....

You know, Pimprenelle, that I do not agree with the exchange theory in Mousseline's case. I also have a book about it by an Austrian count. I don't believe it. Artois was incapable of keeping such a secret. Angouleme had no finesse and would never have been able to keep such a secret either, and he surely would have known the difference between Therese and Ernestine, since he grew up playing with both of them. The Ernestine story is really being promulgated by the supporters of Naundorff (yes, he has descendants who claim the throne of France) to explain why Therese would not accept Naundorff as her own brother (because she was an imposter, they say.) Too many reputable and responsible people such as Madame de Tourzel and her daughter Pauline, Madame de Mackau, Madame de Serent, Madame Recamier etc, had no qualms about recognizing the Duchesse d'Angouleme as Madame Royale.

As for Charles, whether he lived in obscurity or died in prison, it was a terrible tragedy.


Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:39 pm
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Yeah I've never bought into the Ernstine story at all. It just seemed very unlikey and such stretch not to mention the Duchess D'Angouleme wrote her memoirs in 1799 right? although Ernstine was around for many key events she was not in the Temple.

I agree about there being many holes in the Louis Charles story, but even the stories by they imposters have many holes in them. Where Charles age is concerned when he was in a prison, all the trauma's he suffered,etc is bound to take a toll after all look at how much Prison aged the Queen.

some of the Saddest Stories in History... :(


Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:56 am
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good site

http://www.historywiz.com/louisxvii.htm


Thu May 04, 2006 1:39 pm
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Nauendorf didn't die in London, but in Delft (a little town in Holland) You can still visit his grave there. They had compared DNA from Nauendorf with DNA from the Heart of the Boy who died in the Tower, and DNA from hair from a sister from Marie Antoinette, DNA from the Hair and from the heart did match with each other, so the boy who died in the Tower was a child of Marie Antoinette, but the DNA of Nauendorf didn't match with Marie Antoinette, so Nauendorf wasn't Louis XVII.

A few year ago I have met Louis Nauendorf, the great-great great grandson of Nauendrorf, because it was 150 years ago that Nauendorf had died in Delft. He was invited to, with his wife and menbers of his organisation.


Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:09 am
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Wonderful, Axel ! DNA conlusions do no conclude the whole story, I am afraid... First of all, Nandorf not being Louis XVII does not mean that there was no substitution... does it ? Believe me people on French boards go on searching...

Then, they say that this DNA analysis only proves that this heart was related to Marie-Antoinette's Habsburg-Lorraine family... So, it could belong to many children...

And they go on searching the lost dauphin... such a rage ! But I must admit I am fascinated too...

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Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:21 am
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the story of the lost prince facinates me to, but the DNA of Nauendorf didn't match with the DNA from Marie antoinette, so he couldn't be the lost prince. (And like I said I met his great-great-gratgrandson I don't like him, he is to snobbisch and think he is everything, and he is not a really Nauendorfdecent his ancester is fom a child from Nauendorf out of wedlock, There is an other great-great-greatgrandchild from Nauendorf living in Canada who is much nicer,a is a legal child.

Robert


Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:02 am
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Quote:
but the DNA of Nauendorf didn't match with the DNA from Marie antoinette

... but the nandorfists will tell you that those leg bones used for this DNA analysis were not safe, that they could have been removed or something... I swear I read this on a Louis XVII site !

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Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:34 pm
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Here is a poem in honor of the little lost king:

http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... -xvii.html

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Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:38 pm
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I didn't know that Victor Hugo wrote a poem about Louis-Charles!
Magnifique!
Thank you Therese! :D

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Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:20 pm
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I read a very pretty anecdote about Louis-Charles: He chose to offer to hir mother for her festival, an "Immortal" (the flower), and as a compliment he would have said to her while he gave her the flower: "I wish that mom resembles my flower".
Nice not? :D
Louis-Charles every morning offered flowers to his mother, whom he cultivated himself in a small kitchen garden.

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Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:33 pm
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You are welcome!! Yes, he wanted her to be immortal and soon she was.

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Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:20 pm
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