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Irritating
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=389
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Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Irritating

So I was reading messageboards about Coopla's "Marie Antoinette" and there were people complaining about the idea of making MA a more sympathetic person...saying its comparable to making a film on the boyhood of Adolf Hitler! :x
they've been referring to her as arrogant, stupid, etc...Its quite irritating! These people have no idea what they're talking about!

Author:  severina [ Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:48 am ]
Post subject: 

true but when i was at school i was educated this way too ie that MA was an indifferent self indulgent silly woman which of course she was NOT! :roll:

its only these days that we are being given more and more information about historical figures, its such a shame that previous generations have been taught what was popular thought rather than truth.

better late than never though don't you think?! :wink:

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:40 am ]
Post subject: 

I was too, dear severina... :oops: I grew up believing Robespierre was a wonderful idealistic fellow and Marie-Antoinette a silly shallow girl. And yet, I admired and loved her...

Alas, too many teachers still say so rubbish things !

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

The first time I ever learned about her in school. I was in the 6th grade and my teacher told the "Let Them Eat Cake" story and called her a dumb blonde.

Its true though...it seems like more people are learning more about Historical figure cause when I was a senior in High school my European History teacher was asked about Marie Antoinette and she described her as quite pretty. And then mentioned that the revolutionarys did everything they could to humiliate and make life hard for that poor woman.

Author:  severina [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:19 am ]
Post subject: 

i guess at the end of the day its all progress in order to turn around the world's general perception of MA.

to me, princess diana was very similar to MA, thrown in at the deep end in a very uncaring and cold royal court and she managed to hold her dignity and beauty throughout. s

Author:  ohappydagger [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:00 am ]
Post subject: 

It saddens me deeply that people still carry these misconceptions about Marie. I've literally shed tears over this. I try to avoid the imdb message boards and such as I'm sure there will be a few people saying she was just a "dumb blonde."

Author:  Therese [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

I am trying to stay away from the IMDb board these days- so much ignorance there it is amazing!!!

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
to me, princess diana was very similar to MA, thrown in at the deep end in a very uncaring and cold royal court and she managed to hold her dignity and beauty throughout.


Sorry, severina, I think it is totally inaccurate to compare Diana Spencer to queen Marie-Antoinette. Diana Spencer married the man she loved and was unfaithful to him. She died in a car accident with her last lover.

Marie-Antoinette was forced to marry a boy she did never met. She steyed with him till the very end. She lost two children and was parted from the two who remained alive. She was conspued and tortured by her own people, till they finally chopped her head off on the guillotine.

I see no common points with these two very different fates !

Author:  Therese [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

Marie-Antoinette seemed to posess an inner core of strength (she always knew who she was) whereas poor Diana was so lost.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

I agree with you, Therese. Poor Diana must have had a terrible problem for having experienced the awful cycles of boulimia/anorexia. Sissi was reported to have somewhat anorexique too. Marie-Antoinette was not.

Author:  severina [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

Pimprenelle wrote:
Quote:
to me, princess diana was very similar to MA, thrown in at the deep end in a very uncaring and cold royal court and she managed to hold her dignity and beauty throughout.


Sorry, severina, I think it is totally inaccurate to compare Diana Spencer to queen Marie-Antoinette. Diana Spencer married the man she loved and was unfaithful to him. She died in a car accident with her last lover.

Marie-Antoinette was forced to marry a boy she did never met. She steyed with him till the very end. She lost two children and was parted from the two who remained alive. She was conspued and tortured by her own people, till they finally chopped her head off on the guillotine.

I see no common points with these two very different fates !


you don't think they weren't cared for enough in their respective courts then? MA was expected to produce an heir and no one sympathised with her situation, blaming her when it was the King's physical problems which stopped their relationship being 'fruitful'. diana was written off as a mad woman with no feelings.

i think they WERE both treated badly but of course their fates turned out differently.

by the way, charles was unfaithful to diana BEFORE they even married. it was only when diana realised that the marriage was irretrievable that she went onto to have affairs. she adored charles and he couldn't give up camilla and concentrate on making her happy.

it was DISGUSTING the way she was treated by the royal family and i DO find similarities with MA in that respect. you must see the simliarities with court gossip etc don't you?

anyway that is my humble opinion and i'm a great admirer of diana as you can tell. :D

Author:  Therese [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yes, Pim, and cutting herself with a pen knife on purpose. I just read an article that said Diana exaggerated events to the point of lying, for instance once in front of many witnesses she tripped on the stairs while pregnant. But later she said she had tried to commit suicide by throwing herself down the stairs. M-A would never have lied like that.... Marie-Antoinette had an unbreakable code of honor. Diana lived at a different time, when people have no honor. They were both beautiful women with difficulties. However, Diana was loved by the English people no matter what but M-A was condemned no matter what.....

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:31 pm ]
Post subject: 

I respect your admiration for Diana. I don't know her that much, but I had never found any resemblance with Marie-Antoinette.

It would be unfair to blame Louis for these first 7 years of non consummation. Many biographers of Louis say that Marie-Antoinette refused him.

This old phimosis and operation story obviously is a legend, for we find no tracks of any operation and convalescence. Actually, Marie-Antoinette may have suffered from a "narrowness of passage", that means that physical relationships were terribly painful for both of them.

Some biographers of Antoinette think that she may have had no interest for sex. Obviously, she did not enjoy it.

That's why I think Louis XVI acted like a gentleman.

You see, there is nothing to compare to Diana... for, if we should compare all these people victims of gossips and not getting well with their family by alliance ! :roll:

Author:  Therese [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

severina wrote:
Pimprenelle wrote:
Quote:
to me, princess diana was very similar to MA, thrown in at the deep end in a very uncaring and cold royal court and she managed to hold her dignity and beauty throughout.


Sorry, severina, I think it is totally inaccurate to compare Diana Spencer to queen Marie-Antoinette. Diana Spencer married the man she loved and was unfaithful to him. She died in a car accident with her last lover.

Marie-Antoinette was forced to marry a boy she did never met. She steyed with him till the very end. She lost two children and was parted from the two who remained alive. She was conspued and tortured by her own people, till they finally chopped her head off on the guillotine.

I see no common points with these two very different fates !


you don't think they weren't cared for enough in their respective courts then? MA was expected to produce an heir and no one sympathised with her situation, blaming her when it was the King's physical problems which stopped their relationship being 'fruitful'. diana was written off as a mad woman with no feelings.

i think they WERE both treated badly but of course their fates turned out differently.

by the way, charles was unfaithful to diana BEFORE they even married. it was only when diana realised that the marriage was irretrievable that she went onto to have affairs. she adored charles and he couldn't give up camilla and concentrate on making her happy.

it was DISGUSTING the way she was treated by the royal family and i DO find similarities with MA in that respect. you must see the simliarities with court gossip etc don't you?

anyway that is my humble opinion and i'm a great admirer of diana as you can tell. :D


Actually, it was not the king who had a physical problem, it was the queen. She had a narrowness of passage which made the consummation very difficult. Bertiere's book discusses this in detail. There is evidence that as early as 1773, Louis was trying to consummate the marriage.

Author:  severina [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

i have only known the opposite!

didn't Louis have to have an operation to correct his manhood??

i won't go into to details, too delicate!(!)

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