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 1938 with Norma Shearer 
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Royalty
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Dunst did the "Versailles glide" on Ellen. I don't recall them doing that in the movie.

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Tue May 29, 2007 12:03 am
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Here is this video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y69pTfoswpo">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y69pTfoswpo</a>


Tue May 29, 2007 3:10 am
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Comte/Comtesse
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Oh god this movie.

Dunst was better, in my opinion.

Norma only succeeds in portraying the defeated and deflated widow Capet, and not to remember how to accurately act as a young person throughout the other three hours of the film. Until the very last few minutes, Norma spends the film smiling, swooning, or weeping over Fersen in true Ante-Bellum South Gone with the Wind fashion.

It was terrible.

And the hair! Oh lord.
And the dresses. Always in the worst taste imaginable.

Image

The only positive is that it does follow her throughout her life, and again, Norma does pick up her slack in the film's final chapter.

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:40 am
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All those reproachs can actually be addressed to miss Coppola's catastrophe. Look at those hair ! My God ! Marie Antoinette never was as platine blonde as Marylin Monroe !

And Dunst was just able to portray a teenage girl, not a mature queen. And even though... an American 21th century teenage girl. Not for a single second was Dunst a XVIIIth century Habsburg archduchess.

This Coppola movie is the worst even made about Marie Antoinette, definitely ! I just hope it would never be surpassed... for Antoinette's sake ! :lol:

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:21 am
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Royalty
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You guys have to remember thta how a character is played by an actor isn't so much the fault of the actor, (although it partly is) but of the script and director. You've seen Sophia's directing style in "Th Making of Marie Antoinette," it's terrible! What the hell was dunst supposed to do with that, I mean, she isn't exactley the BEST actress in the world, she was just doing what the script and the director said, and she was the one that was hired.

As for Shearer, I would say the same thing. The script called for a simpering girl through most of the movie. You guys have to remember that this was the 1930's, and acting standards were not as high as they are now. She was nominated for an Oscar for the portrayal of Marie Antoinette, (and I think she did a damned fine job) but if she had delivered that same performance today, she would have been mocked.

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:34 pm
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I agree with Monsieur Andre : This is simply a reflection of the 1930's standard of acting, costuming, and sets: they were all rather over-the-top. The clothes were inaccurate and tasteless, the sets were innacurate. And I hated the portrayal of the Duc d'Orleans...they made him look like a pansy for goodness sakes! It does remind one of a rather bad Broadway musical...however I did cry at the end when Marie is seperated from her children. :cry:

It looks like Hollywood hasn't done a very good job by Marie Antoinette, now have they? :roll:

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:39 pm
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I agree too. Although I consider this Van Dyke movie a terrible sugary thing, Norma Shearer did fine. She acted with nobility and grace. Dunst... my... She is even unable to stand straight... :roll:

Of course, she was directed terribly. But she was a terrible choice first of all... :roll:

Look at Genevieve Casile, look at Ute Lemper, look at Charlotte de Turckheim... these ladies portraied Marie Antoinette a credible way.

Dunst just was another Lux Lisbon disguised with XVIIIth century clothes, and a bad carriage.

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:04 pm
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Pimprenelle wrote:
Dunst just was another Lux Lisbon disguised with XVIIIth century clothes, and a bad carriage.


Too true Pimprenelle! :roll: Why would they choose Dunst anyway?

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:27 pm
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Sofia just chose her best friends and family. Just take a look at the credits. Some kind of mafia.

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Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:49 pm
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Hi everyone, I am a new member so I am looking forward to share some thoughts on this topic!

I thought that Norma Shearer played her part very well given what was expected from actresses in those days. True there is a lot of simpering, hands in the air ballerina-style, looking over on the left and then on the right like on stage, decors carton-pate, historical inaccuracies and a protrayal of Louis-Auguste as a dim-wit(which he certainly was not). But Shearer held her own very well especially by the end of the film, although we won't mention that very silly scene when Fersen visits the queen at the conciergerie. As if!

As far as Kirsten Dunst is concerned, I thought that she was good at playing the part of the young archiduchesse/dauphine/queen. She made me see/feel all the frustrations and the longings that Marie-Antoinette must have felt in her early days at Versailles. I also liked all the scenes taking place at the Trianon and the Hameau. We have a vision of Marie-Antoinette 'rousseauiste', and it is not far-fetched since she was a pre-romantic. What is not so good about the movie, is the music rock, again the historical errors (you wonder if Sofia Coppola even read Antonia Fraser's book !), the casting of Rip van Torn as Louis XV and the fersen after making love scene...


Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:00 pm
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Pimmy,

You never seem to actually read what I say in my posts.

I said that Norma acted a good older Marie Antoinette (elegant, noble, regal), but that for the majority of the film she was a whimpering Southern Belle.

Dunst, obviously, is younger than Norma was at the time, and plays a more appropriately aged Marie Antoinette given the time periods in the film (Archduchesse, Dauphine, young Queen).

Yes, Marie Antoinette was not as blonde as Kirsten--but that is hardly film criticism. I was not only discussing the color of the hair (but if you want to, Norma is also a platinum blonde in the film)

Image

As to the choice of cast of Sofia Coppola--yes she chose her brother to help her on the film and her father was a producer (a very good one), but I resent your choice of words, Pim. Not every American of Italian ancestry is a mob-boss.

She chose Kirsten because Kirsten inspires her. It does not take a lot of research to know this. The films "The Virgin Suicides," "Lost in Translation," and "Marie Antoinette" are supposed to be a trilogy of sorts according to Sofia--vignettes of girls (The Virgin Suicides), young women (Lost in Translation), and finally growing into a mature woman (Marie Antoinette)--the scene at the balcony where Marie Antoinette is able to silence the mob with a simple graceful bow is the climax of this trilogy.

Scarlett Johanson replaced Kirsten Dunst in "Lost in Translation" when Dunst turned down the role.

I definitely agree with Andre that the actresses are subject to their director and their times--a very astute point.

There is just a lot of needless Coppola-hating around here, and it's ridiculous. Coppola might not have made the film you would have, but she did create a sympathetic modern portrayal of Marie Antoinette which never hurts, especially as her image continues to be tarnished by the ignorant.

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Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:19 pm
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Royalty
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A gread observation Gabrielle. I would like to say that I have adored the 2006 movie ever since I first saw it. I still think it is a very good movie, on most points. I attribute any crappiness mainly to Coppola because the whole movie was her's basically.

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Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:52 pm
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Gabrielle de Polastron wrote:
Not every American of Italian ancestry is a mob-boss.

I was a little insulted at Pimprenelle's choice of words as well (as I'm half Italian!) but I understand what she is saying.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:22 pm
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I'm half Italian too, and I really agreed with Pim.

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Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:22 pm
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Pimprenelle wrote:
I think you could buy it online. It is in French, indeed, but all the dialogues are historically accurate, so that you could find them translated in English in books.

I found Van Dyke's movie terrible. I even hesitate... Which one is the more awful ? This one, or Sofia Coppola's ? :roll:


I have to agree with you Pimprenelle. I couldn't even get through this movie. I thought Sofia's was bad....but compared to this one...I'm not so sure. I thought the characterization was horrible, the hair and costumes were totally anachronistic....

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Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:26 pm
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