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Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2449
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Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

baron de batz wrote:

Come on!))) Every book one reads states it was!! Where do you get such a statement?!



I inspire myself of Martineau's speech and Lucien Jaume's thesis. See also Ruth Scurr for Robespierre's views on religion. What are your sources ?

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

baron de batz wrote:
By the way you got your answer and more than you bargained for so don't taunt me the next time! :wink:


I am sorry but apart from outcries such as "come on", I do not think you made half as many efforts as me to come up with a well-argumented opinion on this matter. I expect you to make these efforts and to argument your views with actual A.R.G.U.M.E.N.T.S and not E.X.A.M.P.L.E.S. These are different things, and your posts are only made of examples I am afraid.


So no I do not think we can say we were on an equal footing in this discussion and I am still expecting better from you. Thank you.

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

baron de batz wrote:

Do you think you are telling me something I wasn't already aware of there? :lol:



And honestly, this is way over the top. I think you're the one that is having some inferiority complex issues here. I never implied anything of the sort. That is ludicrous.

What is everybody started to do the same any time a member writes anything on this board ? I write something - answer : do you think you taught me something ?

That's insecurity.

Author:  baron de batz [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

Pretty well everything I've ever read which is a hell of a lot!

Ludy wrote:

I do not understand. Read my post again and come up with an appropriate answer. Thank you.


It is quite clear what I say, so don't be intentionally obtuse! I am saying that as far as property and religion is concerned, you say that Bonaparte changed the rules, but we were talking about the two revolutions, and I was not comparing Directory, Consulate or First Empire with the Russian revolution. Were you?!!

You make sweeping statements, and then half back down with weak semi admissions that you were mistaken such as "not all churches were submitted to this"...do you know how many churches were?!! Similarly your admission that if you were a Catholic person at the time then they were indeed attacking the faith, this after clearly stating in an earlier post that faith was not attacked!!!It is infuriating! :banghead:

Author:  baron de batz [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

I start to think that you are just bluff and hot air....

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

baron de batz wrote:
Pretty well everything I've ever read which is a hell of a lot!

Ludy wrote:

I do not understand. Read my post again and come up with an appropriate answer. Thank you.


It is quite clear what I say, so don't be intentionally obtuse! I am saying that as far as property and religion is concerned, you say that Bonaparte changed the rules, but we were talking about the two revolutions, and I was not comparing Directory, Consulate or First Empire with the Russian revolution. Were you?!!

You make sweeping statements, and then half back down with weak semi admissions that you were mistaken such as "not all churches were submitted to this"...do you know how many churches were?!! Similarly your admission that if you were a Catholic person at the time then they were indeed attacking the faith, this after clearly stating in an earlier post that faith was not attacked!!!It is infuriating! :banghead:



I do not understand. I wrote that the Russians interpreted theiir revolution as the logical continuation of the French one. However, this is but an interepretation that consists in believing that economic equality would logically follow after the implementation of the equality before the law. This is questionable, since no revolutionnary leader was keen to go further than that, and thus private property was and remained a fundamental tenet of French law, written in the constituion and the civil code. But maybe was it so to prevent a danger ? to stop the revolution and to stop the principle of equality from invading other areas of society ?

Tocqueville indeed stated that equality was about to become a fundamental principle of modern societies, whether we like it or not, and that economic equality was the logical continuation of the Revolution. And indeed, the debate on equality is an endless one : this notion is always evolving and acquiring new meanings and extention.

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:geek:

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

Yes I think that the problem with the Civil constitution is that it was indeed, IN REALITY, at odds with the fundamental tenet of the Catholic church, for this was unacceptable that bishops were elected and not appointed by the pope. I do not think however, that the original aim was to abolish faith in itself, but to replace it by another form of faith, more compatible with the republic. But this faith had little to do with the original catholic faith, and the civil constitution was thus rejected.


But the Revolution was not fundamentally ATHEIST in the way the Communist regime will be. I would compare the civil constitution with Henry VIII's creation of the Church of England.

About the Churches, I know only the example of Notre Dame and the Panthéon. I have never read that other churched were submitted to this.

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:o

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:angel12:

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:wave:

Author:  baron de batz [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

I suggest a truce, I do enjoy sparring with you and your contributions generally to the forum, except when it gets out of hand, as now. So I wouldn't like to see you stop. I just suggest we tone it down a little. Both of us are convinced that it is the other who gets insulting. For example I think that this time you started it by calling me racist. So just lets stop bickering and try and tone it down and I offer you an olive branch that you may accept or not. :)

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:angry8: :box:

Author:  baron de batz [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:violin:

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Anne Boleyn is more deserving of sympathy than MA?

:blob7:

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