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*Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=506
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Author:  Délicate fleur [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

I found an interesting article today discussing the hygiene and perfume of the court of Louis XIV.

Take a look:

http://1000fragrances.blogspot.com/2011/08/perfumes-of-le-grand-siecle-how-clean.html

Author:  Ludy [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

I remember that my sister once read a book about Louis XIV's health - I did not have the pluck to read that myself. It was edifying. At the end of his life, quite apart from the fact that he had lost most of his teeths, his mouth was in such a bad state that food was pouring through his nose, whithout mentioning the notorious anal problems. Obviously all that was caused by a tremendous lack of elementary hygiene.

Author:  baron de batz [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Well it was actually caused by the most awful piece of dental care ever witnessed when an extraction of teeth in his upper jaw caused him to lose part of that upper jaw. When he drank some of the liquid poured out of his nose, and there was a clear smell of putrefaction when he blew his nose!! I am not surprized that Mme de Maintenon had to receive the clear encouragements of her confessor in order to continue giving the King his nightly due.... :wink:

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Well the only time when it is established that Louis XIV cheated on Madame de Maintenon is just after he had his anal problem fixed. Maybe women like such things.

Author:  baron de batz [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

I don' see the link with what I wrote? :wink:

I wasn't talking about the King cheating on her. Only the fact that Mme De Maintenon wasn't too keen in later life to satisfy the King's appetite, and had to confer with her confessor in order to find the strength to accept it. As for her liking his bad breath, well that would be a first!! :)

Author:  baron de batz [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

But then apparently Henri IV smelt of "charogne" (dead animal in a field) and we know his success, so maybe you have sth there!! :)

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

I can't help laughing at Henriette d'Entragues' endless sarcasm about his being a terrible lover that stank like a carcass and "wanted to go to war, but neither killed nor injured anyone on the battle field". :lol: But this is the most horrible thing to say of a man...And she cheated on him, as did Gabrielle d'Estrées and Jacqueline du Beuil before and after her... I hold Henri IV in great esteem, and it saddens me that he stooped to that at the end of his life. The contrast between his charisma and intelligence on one side, and on the other the grovelling, self humiliating way he wooed (or stalked) women is very unsettling.

Well back to hygiene, Marie de Médicis never said anything on that matter, but she was, strangely enough soaked with perfume on her way to bed. :lol:

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Once again, no link with what you wrote. But at the end of the day, speaking to myself is the only way I found not to be wrong.

Plus culture is like marmelade, the less you have it the more you spread it. So do not rob me of my 5 minutes of fame and self-satisfied arrogance.

Author:  Lilly [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Ludy wrote:
But at the end of the day, speaking to myself is the only way I found not to be wrong.


I love that, Ludy!!

Ludy wrote:
Well back to hygiene, Marie de Médicis never said anything on that matter, but she was, strangely enough soaked with perfume on her way to bed.


Even today, when I come across a person who has doused themselves with perfume or cologne, I wonder what they are trying to cover. Odors can be so offensive - I find almost nothing worse than someones body odor being masked by perfume. ICK!!


baron de batz wrote:
Only the fact that Mme De Maintenon wasn't too keen in later life to satisfy the King's appetite, and had to confer with her confessor in order to find the strength to accept it.


This always makes me laugh - Louis XIV in his old age still wanted alot of sex! Poor Madame de Maintenon certainly did consult her confessor on this matter - it seems she wasn't as "frisky" as her husband!

Author:  baron de batz [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

I think Marie de Medicis put on a lot of perfume to cover the King's odour! :)

As for Henriette d'Entragues' wit, it is wondeful! Women were not in a strong position then (are they now?!) but that was one way they could certainly make a man look foolish!! :) A few well placed ironic comments....!

Author:  baron de batz [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

What was her quote in French Ludy...it must be beautiful!

About going to war but wounding nobody....

Author:  Ludy [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

She called him a "capitaine-bon-vouloir, qui veut aller à la guerre, mais qui n'y tue ni n'y blesse personne".


Well, women can be cruel, even Joséphine notoriously scoffed at Napoleon's love making after they got divorced -and so did Eléonore de la Plaigne, his mistress. Women are now apt to be more vulgar than ironic, unfortunately.


By the way, didn't Marie-Antoinette herself indulged in this type of conversations with Besenval and Yolande de Polignac ? There was an infamous lampoon about her husband being a "poor sire". :lol:

Author:  Ludy [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Henriette d'Entragues is hilarious. :lol: I can't help feeling a kind of sadistic pleasure reading her quotes, because I believe Henri IV got what he deserved by not putting her firmly back to her place. It's funny when he presented her to Marie de Médicis (saying she had been his mistress :lol: ), and had litterally to force her to bow down ! She was, by the way, Marie Touchet's daughter. A real family business.

Author:  baron de batz [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Do you have a book of quotes by her or something?)


I love the thought that he had to force her to bow!! :lol:

Once these women had achieved a certain power there was really no stopping them! They had their wit, no-one could take that from them!

Marie Antoinette referred to Louis as a "pauvre homme' (poor man) in a letter to some Duke or Count (the name escapes me for now). Many biographers have tried to give this a kind of linguistic explanation, such as Delorme. For me "poor man" means "poor man"...not in the sense of feeling sorry for him, but an unflattering description to a third party of her husband! And when MT gets to hear of the letter (through her spy network) MA does not defend herself unduly, or deny the sense of these words.

Author:  baron de batz [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *Bathing~Bathrooms~Hygiene*

Do you know of a good biography of that Henriette d'Entrangues? She sounds like worth getting to know better!! :)

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