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What Did Louis XVI Call MA?
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Author:  Leisel86 [ Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

What did Marie Antoinette's husband call her? Antoine? Antoinette? I know she was 'Antoine' to her mother up until she left Austria, and remained 'Antoine' to her sisters and brothers.

Author:  versailles [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Well in public it was your probably Your Grace or Highness, but in private maybe Toinette? I read that somewhere :?

Author:  Madame.Menelle [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

I read that too. I'm reading a book called "Figures". There's the Marie Antoinette's biography and i've been reading that her mother called her, of course in their privacy, "Toinette".

Best wishes

Author:  baron de batz [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Her mother called her Antonia or Antoine. Never Toinette. That was reserved for the later anti MA revolutionary pamplets.

As for Louis XVI he almost certainly called her "Madame".

Author:  Marija Vera [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Thank you baron for making this clear. :biggrin:

Author:  Anouk [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Right. Just think of "Les amours de Charlot et de Toinette" pamphlet :angry2:

Author:  Rosalie [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Yes, usually the king and queen called each other "monsieur" and "madame", even in private conversations. Of course we will never know what they told each other when they were alone, but at that time relationships between husband and wife, in the higher social classes, were very formalized, at least much more than now, so I don't think they ever used names like Toinette or similar...

Author:  Anouk [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

In Louis last will, he called Marie Antoinette "my wife". Not "Marie Antoinette", not "Toinette" or others. I don't know how was testament's mode in that time (maybe the same like nowadays) but I have the impression that he wrote his letter in inward tones to prove his familiar feelings to Marie Antoinette (and of course, to all of his family). I think it was a way to demonstrate not just his affection to her, but the proper family realtions of the Ancien RĂ©gime. Revolutionaries weren't famous about thier love for family bonds, I think (except for some person who had human manifestations).
And Marie Antoinette called Louis "my housband" in her last letter, and, I think, this "my" word pictures her possesion.

Author:  Rosalie [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

That's an interesting obervation, Anouk.
I think testament usage comprises statement of family relationships, but it can be true that they wanted to underline the "proper" family ties, and maybe, even more, stress the affection for each other.
I don't think revolutionaries actually placed much less enphasis on the importance of family (as we have discussed in the "Revolution and women" thread, family was alwys seen as the place where good "patriots" could be educated to the service of the State), but of course, that could be how it was perceived by MA and Louis. It's something similar, maybe, to MA's observations about religion in her will, where she wrote that she died in the Holy Catholic faith of her ancestor, and added that she didn't know wether someone still professed that faith (I can't remember the exact words, but it was something like this). Of course there were examples of "freer" relationships among revolutionaries, so the perception MA and Louis had of their lifestyle coul be of one conflicting with the good rules of society and family relationships.

Author:  Therese [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Vincent Cronin says that Louis privately called her "Antoinette." Of course, even in private they would probably address each other as "Monsieur" and "Madame," it being a formal era.

Author:  Anouk [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

"Antoinette", it is a good middle expedient. Not so formal, not too unrestrained. I think this can be the solution :)

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

That is what Marie Antoinette was called by her family. Cronin explained that he chose the title Louis and Antoinette versus "Louis and Marie Antoinette" because Antoinette would be used by her family. :)

Author:  jadean [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Did Marie-Antoinette ever call him Sire? I remember in a movie, which isn't realible I know but the movie is based on a biography, but she called him sire, in the books I have read never had her quoted as calling him Sire, or Your Majesty. I wonder if she ever called him August, may be in private?

Author:  jimcheval [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

I wouldn't read too much meaning into whatever language was used in a will, which is a legal document. It's hard to imagine what other term would have been appropriate, given that "My wife" defines his legal relationship with her.

I'm inclined to think they called each other "Monsieur" and "Madame". In correspondence, she seems to refer to him as "the King", which I imagine is how they always referred to each other before others.

I keep thinking of the fact that Degaulle apparently called his wife "vous", and that in the twentieth century. It's hard, especially for English-speakers with no modern-day informal form of "you", to realize just how all-pervasive such formality could be, even in intimate relations.

Author:  Anouk [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Did Louis XVI Call MA?

Maybe in public, they would call each other Madame/Monsieur (or Sire? I don't know, it is a more distant appellation...) at the beginning, when they were just heirs of the throne. Despite all politeness and formality, it's hard to imagine they were not familiar in their personal relationship... In the event, they were husband and wife.

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