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Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=944
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Author:  Therese [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:47 pm ]
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It is. She was not a shallow person. She would not have gone to her death with Louis if she had been shallow.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:33 pm ]
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Yes, it is true, Therese. Antoinette had a choice, and she gave her life so she could stay with Louis. I do not understand why authors think she would rather have been with Fersen. :roll:

Author:  Therese [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:47 pm ]
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Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:
Yes, it is true, Therese. Antoinette had a choice, and she gave her life so she could stay with Louis. I do not understand why authors think she would rather have been with Fersen. :roll:


Yes, especially when she had several chances to leave Louis and run off with Fersen, if she had been so inclined.

Author:  Monika [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:21 am ]
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I disagree... If louis was handsome, how come he is not known for his good looks like some other courtiers? I personally dont find Louis beautiful on the outside. No offence but he looks like an average chubby man. What was on the inside is another matter.............


P.S This is just my opinion .I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings....
Remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but we humans often think that how a person looks on the outside , reflects what they are like on the inside.I hope this makes sense :D

Author:  Therese [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:28 am ]
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Monika wrote:
i disagree... if louis was handsome, how come nobody mentioned it in their books,etc.? I personally dont find louis beautiful on the inside. no offence but he looks like an average chubby man. what was on the inside is another matter.............


Lady Sutherland commented on how handsome Louis-Auguste was at his wedding. He had "well-planted hair" and his aquiline nose was considered handsome for the time. Also the Coursacs, Fay and Cronin all discuss Louis' good looks and his muscular build in their books. Yes, he got heavy later, but he was reputed to be the strongest man at court, and could life a page standing on the edge of a shovel. Read the Coursacs.

Author:  Hans Axel [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:09 am ]
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The people who compare Fersen and Louis might say that Le Beau Fersen was more beautiful/handsome, but they might also say that Fersen was more conceited... And, for the last time, it is unfair to think that Antoinette would only love a handsome man. One must also know that beauty then and now are not the same. Many men were corpulent at this time, even many kings were big, and that was not nessisarily considered ugly. Fersen on the other hand had for example very narrow shoulders, and that was indeed not a good thing. Very thin women were also not regarded beautiful in this time.

Author:  Hans Axel [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:03 am ]
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Monika wrote:
I disagree... If louis was handsome, how come he is not known for his good looks like some other courtiers?


One reason that could explain why he is not known for his good looks is that he did not have any mistresses, and that was rare at that time (for a king). He was faithful to Antoinette, and one might jump to conclusions and say that he was that because he was shy, ugly and fat, but that's just plain stupid. If he would have had several mistresses, like his grand father for example (and believe me, he could have had, even if he was butt ugly - if he would have wanted to, I mean - he was king of France!) then his looks might have been more spoken about.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:03 pm ]
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It is true, Hans Axel ! And Louis XVI is futhermore the victim of revolution propaganda still. Those pamphets and caricatures showed him as a fat ugly and stupid man and, still nowadays, it is believed that Louis was smaller than his wife, for instance, though he was a tall man.

Author:  Therese [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:25 pm ]
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Yes, Pimprenelle and Hans Axel, you are both so right. Louis could have had any woman he wanted, since he was king. But he chose to be a faithful husband; he loved his wife. And it is STILL part of the propaganda to portray Louis as weak, fat and asexual.

Author:  Monika [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:18 pm ]
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So you are saying that based JUST on the looks form the picture above ,where he is standing, (not personallity,etc) you find that picture of Louis handsome, Hans Axel???

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:21 pm ]
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You always get back to this, Monika... Does it really matter ? Basically, I mean... :roll:

Do you mean you wouldn't stay with a man the others would not find handsome ? :shock:

I ask, for I don't get your point... :shock:

Author:  Monika [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:25 pm ]
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Well the topic of this discusion is about who we think is better looking to us. I thought we are free to express our opinions in this forum.Aren't we? Based on the pictures above, and only on the pictures above( not the things that I read or heard) I think that Ferson was more handosme than Louis. That's it.Its just my opinion, as is your opinion.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:37 pm ]
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Well, then ! You said your opinion. Didn't you since the beginning ? :lol:

Author:  Hans Axel [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:21 am ]
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Monika wrote:
So you are saying that based JUST on the looks form the picture above ,where he is standing, (not personallity,etc) you find that picture of Louis handsome, Hans Axel???


What are you talking about, Monika? When have I ever said that I think that Louis was handsome, not that I don't think that, but when have I said that? And why on earth would I base an opinion on just one photo? Is that what you're doing? Then you do the exact thing that I talked about earlier that I don't think one should do. Read my recent posts. To sum it up for you: We are not being very historically accurate if we don't see the whole story about Louis (him being victim of propaganda, etc. etc.) and beauty then and now is not the same thing.

Monika wrote:
Well the topic of this discusion is about who we think is better looking to us.


No actually, that is not the main topic here. If you read the first post in this thread, for instance, you can see that the actual topic is if we think that Antoinette loved Fersen. When people started discussing who were most handsome of Fersen and Louis I said that beauty is not gonna make us know Antoinette's feelings.

But I can answer your question if you'd like me to. I do think that Louis is handsome in "the picture above ,where he is standing". Though I think that in the pictures I have seen of Fersen he was handsome too. But this is only my opinion, I can't say that just because I think they are beautiful in their pictures that they were considered handsome in those days and I can certainly not say that because of their beauty Antoinette loved them.

Author:  Monika [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:04 am ]
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I have only one thing to say to Hans Axel: please take it easy..... :D

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