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Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=944
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Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:25 pm ]
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Therese wrote:
Exactly. Antoinette could not have carried on with Fersen without Louis knowing of it. And people who say that Louis would have shrugged and looked the other way have not read enough about him.


Yes! My thoughts exactly! Even thought he loved her, if she had been "cheating", it would be his paternal instinct to protect his children. Antoinette would not have done such things. Remember, she was a mother! Not just any mother, but the mother of The Children of France.

Author:  Therese [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:33 pm ]
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Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:
Remember, she was a mother! Not just any mother, but the mother of The Children of France.


And that was a sacred role, not only to Louis and Antoinette, but to all the French people.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:36 pm ]
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Quite true, Therese. Who ever supports these ridiculous rumors should be put out of their misery with a shovel. :lol:

Author:  sophie-louisa [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:18 pm ]
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Quote:
Exactly. Antoinette could not have carried on with Fersen without Louis knowing of it. And people who say that Louis would have shrugged and looked the other way have not read enough about him.


Exactly, although Louis adored Antoinette, the children meant the world to him too and he wouldn't want to risk their reputations. If she had done that, he would have sent her away. He may not have got 'round to divorcing her but he would have put her away somewhere. History shows, obviously, this did not happen. If anything it shows the opposite - the longer Louis and Antoinette were together the closer they became.

There is no way she could have carried out an affair without him hearing about it. Hell, they couldn't sleep together without the court hearing about it and they were married! Louis and Antoinette were more alike than some people think - they were family people who loved their children too much to betray them or each other. That's another thing - she had people like Fersen where around to make her laugh, that's all.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:54 pm ]
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sophie-louisa wrote:
Hell, they couldn't sleep together without the court hearing about it and they were married!


True, Dear Sophie-Louisa! How on earth could Antoinette have these affairs with the Fersen when she could not even be with her husband, alone? The world's belief in these awful goings-on can be blamed on Madame Fraser and Madame Coppola! These women have very popular Antoinette books/movies, and so the world is willing to believe what they hear! Honestly! It makes me feel sick, the poor woman is shown no respect even after all these years!

Author:  Autrichienne [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

I think she loved him...or better, I hope so because it's so romantic!
We'll never know the truth...

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

Hopefully historical research will go on and we finally know the truth.

Author:  Innocent Antoinette [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

I certainly would choose Louis over Axel any time!

Author:  Autrichienne [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

Innocent Antoinette wrote:
I certainly would choose Louis over Axel any time!

Why?!?!

Author:  Therese [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

I would choose Louis over Axel, too. Louis was a good man, and devoted husband and father. That counts for a lot. Axel was charming, but he was a playboy; he had many ladies in his life. Antoinette was clever enough to appreciate what she had in Louis, as she herself said to her mother, she was glad for the husband whom Heaven had sent her.

Author:  Rosalie [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

I agree on choosing Louis rather than Fersen. And, anyway, looking at his pictures, Fersen doesn't realy look so handsome as they say...mah!

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

Quote:
And, anyway, looking at his pictures, Fersen doesn't realy look so handsome as they say...mah!


I agree dear Rosalie! Overrated. And Antonia Fraser claims that Fersen was such a great heroic-looking man, when in fact I think he is simply a weak beauty, and playboy. Plus, Fraser is just a romantic.

Author:  Hans Axel [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

Though it is not all from nothing this talk about Fersen being handsome. He was known for his beauty in his days (it is not something Antonia Fraser has made up) and I guess it cannot all be wrong. His whole family was known for their beauty. When his father was in France, long before Fersen himself came there, he was described as very handsome and all Fersen's brothers and sisters were also known for their beauty. I also think it is very hard for us today to just take a look at pictures and then tell if they were considered beautiful in those days or not. It is hard to say just in some few hand painted pictures. Beauty now is not the same thing as beauty then either. Fersen himself, for instance, writes several times in his diary that he disslikes THIN women (and I don't mean thin as in anorexic, but just ordinary thin) and that's not the ideal we have today.

But about who to choose over Louis or Axel I guess every girl would choose a king. Especially a king who gives all his love to you only.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

Yes, but I think Fraser tends to say these things purely to get her books on the shelves. No doubt Fersen was a beautiful man, but Fraser tries to make things more romantic in her book, like how she said she "hoped" Fersen and Antoinette had spent the night together at the night in the Tuileries? Did I spell that right?

Author:  Hans Axel [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

Fraser is surely one of those writers who tend to be influated by their own expectations about what they want to discover when they do research.

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