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Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=944
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Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Count Axel von Fersen and Marie Antoinette?

What do you guys think ? Do you think that Antoinette ever loved this man ? I , being a huge fan of Louis XVI , refuse to believe she ever loved him . Pardon if another member has posted this topic . How can you compare this :
Image
to this? :
Image

Louis XVI is so much more handsome ! :wink: :lol:

Author:  Therese [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:13 am ]
Post subject: 

We have quite an extensive discussion about it here:

http://www.marie-antoinette.org/forum/v ... .php?t=217

I think Louis was handsomer, too.

Author:  Sillage de la Reine [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 

just my "opinion", I think Fersen is a bit more handsome. There's something about his look that's very charming. I don't know all the details of Marie's life, but I can't help but think there may have been a possible love affair between the two. At least emotionally if not physical.

I'm sure MA, being the lovely, and sweet woman that she was, she cared a lot for Louis Auguste, though he was shy and a lil awkward. I can't help, but almost know for a fact that MA was a little lonely at heart and Fersen's charms attracted her to him. Many woman will look for love elsewhere if they don't get it from their men. I, for example, have had that experience... and as handsome as my husband is, I was attracted to someone else deeply who was far less attractive because he knew my heart, mind, and soul. So though, there was no physical affair between he and I, our souls were deeply in love with one another. He had my heart, but my husband was my life. That's why I believe MA and Fersen may have had something more than just friendship, but may not be sexually intimate! We may know of the Queens history, but may never know how her heart truly felt unless we were her herself.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:47 am ]
Post subject: 

Your comment is interesting, dear. However, it is but speculation. Back to historical researchs, we have nothing in Marie Antoinette's own handwriting proving that she loved count Fersen in one way or another. That, in my opinion, is relevant.

Now, if we get to personal interpretation and psychology, why would a lonely person as you imagine Marie Antoinette was fall in love with such a womanizer ? She would feel even more lonely, seeing him going away to spend wonderful time into one of his mistresses' sensual arms...

And, by the way, I am not sure, trying to put myself into Antoinette's shoes, that I would choose Fersen... :roll:

Image

Fersen ?

Image

Or Louis Auguste ? Hmmm... I think I'd pick my Louis ! :wink:

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

I agree, dear Pimprenelle!
I highly doubt that an almost devout catholic, Antoinette would have an affair with such a man! With any man, as a matter of fact. And this is what really turned me off when reading Fraser's "The Journey". She builds up such a respectable queen, then agrees with popular, yet most likely untrue, belief!
Fersen had many lovers, so even if there was an affair, it would not have been a very happy or long-lasting one. :D :roll:

Author:  Ella-Lucette [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

I don't believe she loved Ferson in that way. She adored his friendship. Plus how cute a love story is it that such a wild child fell in love with a shy young man (Louis)?

Author:  Therese [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

Ella-Lucette wrote:
I don't believe she loved Ferson in that way. She adored his friendship. Plus how cute a love story is it that such a wild child fell in love with a shy young man (Louis)?


Delightful! That's how I see it!!

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

I agree, Ella- Lucette and Therese.
It just goes to show that difference is good sometimes. :D I should go carve a heart into a tree, then put "Louis and Antoinette forever" in it . :lol:

Author:  Monika [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:47 am ]
Post subject: 

well....it it said that louis looked much better in paintings than in real life

Author:  Hans Axel [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:02 am ]
Post subject: 

Monika wrote:
well....it it said that louis looked much better in paintings than in real life


It is hard for us to know how they looked in those days and it's hard to know what they considered beautiful. Also, beauty is certainly not everything, not today and not then. We're unfair to Antoinette if we think she could only love a beauty.

I'm not saying that you Monika has said something wrong, it's just the conversation that is unfair.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:21 am ]
Post subject: 

Then, those many novelists and biographers are unfair ! For they always insist on Fersen's amazing beauty. And they do compare him to fat Louis. So, we are intitled to compare them too, and to sincerely think about that.

Once again, I am not sure at all I would take Fersen. And as far as it goes to temper, I am quite sure I would prefer a loyal husband and a tender father to a cynical womanizer ! :wink:

So... Louis for husband and Fersen just for friend... among others friends ! :D

Author:  Therese [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hans Axel wrote:

It is hard for us to know how they looked in those days and it's hard to know what they considered beautiful. Also, beauty is certainly not everything, not today and not then. We're unfair to Antoinette if we think she could only love a beauty.


I agree, Hans Axel. I have also read some contemporary accounts that described Louis as handsome. He did not get heavy until his thirties, and even then he was muscular and well-built. He was a just very awkward, a big awkward guy, very intellectual. But he was athletic as well.

Author:  Hans Axel [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

Pimprenelle wrote:
Then, those many novelists and biographers are unfair ! For they always insist on Fersen's amazing beauty. And they do compare him to fat Louis. So, we are intitled to compare them too, and to sincerely think about that.


They are unfair, and we can laugh at them for thinking that Antoinette could only love a beauty. We can compare paintings of Fersen and Louis, but for what purpose? It's not like we can make any conclusions about Antoinette...

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

I agree with you. Of course, Antoinette loved people for what they where inside, not for their beauty ! However, authors always insist on Fersen's beauty, as if she could not resist, it, you see. That's ridiculous, of course ! But it is part of their point.

Author:  Hans Axel [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

It certainly is ridiculous.

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