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Widow Capet
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1234
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Author:  Ludy [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

The Bourbons are a branch of the Capetian dynasty. The direct Capetians reinged until the 100 year war until the Capetian-Valois (they're cousins) replaced them -which is by the way, the direct cause of the war against England. The Valois lasted until the end of the Renaissance, when Catherine de Médicis' four sons (three of them became kings) were unable to "produce" male heirs. Thus, after Henry III's assasination, the throne went to Henry of Bourbon, a protestant prince, who was the first Bourbon king (Henry IV).

The Revolutionaries named Louis XVI this way intentionnally, because "de Bourbon" would have been a reference to his noble origins and that was precisely what they meant to abolish, I think they were utterly aware that Louis XVI actual name was "de Bourbon". Louis XVI himself reminded them that Capet was not his name, but one of his distant ancestor's. That is why Marie Antoinette's answer when asked her name at her trial seems, to me, particularly courageous and daring : "Je m'appelle Marie Antoinette de Lorraine d'Autriche, veuve du Roi de France". She thus underlines that she refuses to be a citizen of the new Republic and renounce her nobilty. From this very sentence, her execution seems unavoidable to me.

Author:  Princess2 [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

Ludy wrote:
The Bourbons are a branch of the Capetian dynasty. The direct Capetians reinged until the 100 year war until the Capetian-Valois (they're cousins) replaced them -which is by the way, the direct cause of the war against England. The Valois lasted until the end of the Renaissance, when Catherine de Médicis' four sons (three of them became kings) were unable to "produce" male heirs. Thus, after Henry III's assasination, the throne went to Henry of Bourbon, a protestant prince, who was the first Bourbon king (Henry IV).


Was he also known as Henry of Navarre and married to Catherine de Medici's daughter?

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

Princess2 wrote:
Ludy wrote:
The Bourbons are a branch of the Capetian dynasty. The direct Capetians reinged until the 100 year war until the Capetian-Valois (they're cousins) replaced them -which is by the way, the direct cause of the war against England. The Valois lasted until the end of the Renaissance, when Catherine de Médicis' four sons (three of them became kings) were unable to "produce" male heirs. Thus, after Henry III's assasination, the throne went to Henry of Bourbon, a protestant prince, who was the first Bourbon king (Henry IV).


Was he also known as Henry of Navarre and married to Catherine de Medici's daughter?

He married Marguerite de Valois.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marguerite_de_Valois

Author:  Princess2 [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

Thank you for that :) Thought he sounded familiar but wasn't too sure.

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

:D Welcome(:

Author:  matt4004 [ Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

There is no known instance of any member of the Merovingian dynasty surviving their ousting by Pepin the Short (father of Charlemagne). The suggestion some 20 years ago that there was was of course a colossal hoax perpetrated on the writer Henry Lincoln, author of Holy Blood and Holy Grail

About 60 years ago I read that Charlemagne was "11th in direct male descent" from Pharimond, the father-in-law of Merovee the founder of the Merovingian dynasty, but I don't believe that was true either

The Carolingians in their turn were ousted by Hugh Capet, but Carolingian descendants subsequently married into the House of Capet and subsequent kings of France were all descendants of both Charlemagne and Hugh (the only Capetian king not to have a number; though John II only had a number because the posthumous John I lived a mere one day!)

The current king of Spain is not a direct male descendant of Hugh Capet. The Spanish crown passed through the female line - Isabella II - in the mid-19th century from Ferdinand VII to Alfonso XII. Admittedly Isabella married Francisco her supposedly full male cousin. But he was generally assumed at the time to have been illegitimate and not the son of Charles IV. This and other doubts let to the rise in the late 19th century of the Carlist faction who wanted the descendants of Ferdinand VII's middle brother Carlos to be king of Spain but were not successful.

matt

Author:  jimcheval [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

Ludy wrote:
I think they were utterly aware that Louis XVI actual name was "de Bourbon".

I don't believe it was.

Typically, what follows the particule is the fief, not the family name. The family name of Charles, Prince of Wales, is not "Wales". Honoré Gabriel Riqueti was the Count of Mirabeau, and is best-known to history as "Mirabeau", but his family name was Riqueti.

And so the family whose "fief" became France ("Louis de France") drew their original title from the Bourbonnais, making them "de Bourbon". But the conventional (if almost never used) family name for the kings of France does indeed seem to have been "Capet":

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi-bin/res.pl?keyword=Louis+XVI&offset=0

(All this, to be clear, under the Old Regime - I've known lots of people in modern times whose family names would have been titles under the monarchy.)

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Widow Capet

I didn`t know this. Thank you very much !

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