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A charge of incest? Seriously?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2435
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Author:  Woodland Nymph [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

Ludy wrote:
Joke apart, the truth is that all archduchesses were called "Marie", so if one wants to shorten MA's name, it would be Antoinette rather than Marie.

Oh goodness, I'd forgotten that archduchesses were called "Marie"! I see now why my calling MA by simply "Marie" would seem so strange! Thanks for letting me know and I promise I am not usually so dimwitted. :wink:

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

:lol: :angel8:

Author:  baron de batz [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

I guess the Marie name for all the children is a kind of invocation of protection from Mary, being a Catholic family. In Vienna she was simply called Antonia.

No-one thinks you're dim-witted here, quite the contrary! :)

Author:  Ludy [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

I think they used to call her Antoine in Vienna, rather than Antonia.

Author:  Chocolat [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

The name normally used was Antonia (in German). But all the daughters of Marie Therese (like herself btw) had as their first baptismal name "Marie" (Maria) in front of it.

Like many other things at that time this came from Spain to Vienna - just like the court ceremonial or the Spanish Riding School) It was introduced by Charles V.
Even in today's Spain (which is mostly catholic) one of the names given to a girl is nine times out of ten Maria :wink:

Author:  Ludy [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

Grüss Gott Chocolat, long time no see ! It is very nice to have you back !

The correct name is Antonia in German, but the Austrian court at that time spoke / butchered French so she was often called Antoine, which is in fact masculine in French. I find "Madame Antoine" very cute however.


I agree that the very principle that consists in giving several names stems from the Catholic religion. The more you have, the better because you'll be under the protection of many saints. So "Maria", well for obvious reasons. I wonder in the Habsburg dynasty was not under the patronage of Virgin Mary by the way.

It is also a very common name in France, where we have a lot of composed names that inclue "Marie". France being a Catholic country originally, and under the patronage of Mary since Louis XIII took his famous oath - even if, according to John Paul II , she may have lost her soul.

The Spanish are indeed renowed for giving a lot of names indeed. But what is interesting is that in any Catholic country, the name "Maria" also applies to men, only in composed names of course. My father for instance is called "Jean-Marie" - litterally in English "John-Mary". I think this happens only in Catholic countries, because of the importance that has been bestowed on the Virgin Mary, especially since the end of the XIX century and the new dogma conerning the cult of the Holy Virgin.

Author:  Chocolat [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

C'est jontille, merci, Ludy :greetings-waveyellow:

In German speaking countries we sometimes have "Maria" translated to "Mario" in case of a man. Such as Johannes Mario Simmel (a famous author).

But the tradition to add the name of Maria to a girl's name no longer exist in Austria nowadays. The only exception I can think of are the nuns! There a sister can have a male first name as well - like the one we had in our boarding school whose name was Maria Johannes - and we called her "Sister Johannes".

(Which btw reminds me of a soer Marie Cruchotte de St Trop :lol: )

Happy :bunny: to all of you!

Author:  Lilly [ Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A charge of incest? Seriously?

Woodland Nymph wrote:
Oh goodness, I'd forgotten that archduchesses were called "Marie"! I see now why my calling MA by simply "Marie" would seem so strange! Thanks for letting me know and I promise I am not usually so dimwitted.


You are not a dim wit........but thanks for understanding my point.

Nice to see you return here Chocolat!

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