Marie Antoinette Online
  • FORUM
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:47 am



Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
 Last Letter 
Author Message
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 710
Post Re: Last Letter
I made the comment - and have never again been able to find the source. I tend to think I spoke too soon. Vive, you are very well read when it comes to Robespierre...I, on the other hand, am not. I will modify my inaccuracy on this thread.


Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:14 pm
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 710
Post Re: Last Letter
In any event, do we know how MA's last letter came to the light? Where was it and who had it? Another one for History Detective!


Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:30 pm
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:42 am
Posts: 653
Location: Paris
Post Re: Last Letter
Actually, I think the letter was simply given to Fouquier Tinville, who did not deliver it to Madame Elisabeth as he should have but kept it sealed. I believe it was bought back by Louis XVIII but I am not sure of this. I am sure I can easily check that whenever I have the opportunity to do so -which will not be soon but whatever.

I am not certain of the circumstances in which the letter reached the Royal Family, but for sure Robespierre did not own the letter. He did own a few belongings of the Royal Family though.

The circumstances are well explained in the epilogue of Bertière's book, but I do not have it handy at this point.

_________________
" Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.


Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:15 pm
Profile
Marquis/Marquise
Marquis/Marquise
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 132
Post Re: Last Letter
Lilly wrote:
I made the comment - and have never again been able to find the source. I tend to think I spoke too soon. Vive, you are very well read when it comes to Robespierre...I, on the other hand, am not. I will modify my inaccuracy on this thread.


Awe, I hope I didn't sound too prickly, I just get a little sensitive about things like this. It's certainly not your fault! As to sources, I've seen it reported in numerous biographies of Marie Antoinette myself. You could have been thinking of Zweig, or Castelot. But as I said, although it is often reported as an indisputable fact...it is very much disputed.


Ludy wrote:
Actually, I think the letter was simply given to Fouquier Tinville, who did not deliver it to Madame Elisabeth as he should have but kept it sealed. I believe it was bought back by Louis XVIII but I am not sure of this. I am sure I can easily check that whenever I have the opportunity to do so -which will not be soon but whatever.


The circumstances are shady. I concede that it very well may have been given to Fouquier. However, I am fairly certain that Courtois somehow got a hold of the letter. Most sources I've read trace it back to him but then again, those sources I've read could be wrong. Zweig and Castelot certainly aren't without blemish, and they are far from the only sinners when it comes to things like this.

Quote:
I am not certain of the circumstances in which the letter reached the Royal Family, but for sure Robespierre did not own the letter. He did own a few belongings of the Royal Family though.


...Like? I don't believe anything of the kind was recorded when his estate was inventoried after Thermidor but I'd have to check again. On that note, considering the total of his possessions were sold for less than 100 English pounds I confess that the contention does not seem likely, as I believe objects owned by the royals would have fetched a higher price. Unless, of course, we are going to make the argument that these priceless possessions were pilfered by others and then sold with the remark "I found this among Robespierre's things!"

Which is a claim that would need to be validated beyond the seller's word, all things considered.

_________________
History is written by the victors - Winston Churchill


Last edited by Vive on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:34 pm
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 710
Post Re: Last Letter
Vive wrote:
Lilly wrote:I made the comment - and have never again been able to find the source


Quite by accident, I happened to come across that elusive source! The claim comes from - "Marie Antoinette" by Manuel and Odette Komroff (1972) and reads as follows:

"She gave the letter to the warden, who promised faithfully to send it to Madame Elisabeth. But it was never delivered. It was found nine months later after both Madame Elisabeth and Robespierre had been guillotined. It was found under the mattress of Robespierre's bed together with the letter the Queen had written on the eve of her trial asking for a delay of three days!" Page 181

Although the authors did use some reliable sources in writing this book, there is no mention of a source for this story. With no other source, anywhere, we must assume this to not be true. Also, in lightly going over the book, I spotted a few other things that are not accurate.


Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:53 am
Profile
Marquis/Marquise
Marquis/Marquise
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 132
Post Re: Last Letter
Hrm. The user Madame Vigée-Le Brun also informed me that she read in Seward's biography of Marie Antoinette that Robespierre had made it a law that all girls had to be married by age fifteen or else be forced into prostitution.

Lol, okay. Either faux pas like this are signs of royalist historians' conscious defamation of historical figures they dislike or a sign that they are unwilling to research the "other side."

Neither is acceptable in an historian. I find it rather hypocritical of them to begrudge the Revolutionaries for slandering Marie Antoinette while they themselves slander the Revolutionaries.

_________________
History is written by the victors - Winston Churchill


Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:59 am
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 710
Post Re: Last Letter
Because you mentioned Seward, I decided to take a look at his book.....He also says the same thing about MA's last letter!!

"This letter was never delivered. Later, it too was found under the Incorruptibles mattress." (Page 271) - once again, he cites no source for where this information comes from.


Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:39 am
Profile
Marquis/Marquise
Marquis/Marquise
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:53 pm
Posts: 132
Post Re: Last Letter
I'm not surprised. It's also in Zweig and Castelot's works. Susan Nagel repeats the story in her biography of Marie-Thérèse. No source is ever cited.

Funny, for all that we can source dozens of Capet biographies, I have never seen it mentioned in a single biography of Robespierre, no matter how hostile the author - and my library on this man is not paltry.

It seems to me that Zweig, Seward, etc. are playing a game of telephone. They saw it mentioned in some other biography of Marie Antoinette and they trust their predecessors' scholarship on this point because hey, it seems like something that rapscallion Robespierre would do. But when I play a game of telephone with just five people by the end of line the message is completely garbled. Playing the game over two hundred years, and with people of a different first language from a different time using different terminology, cannot have the end result turn out much better.

This is why primary sources should be the gold standard. You'd think using primary sources would be second nature to any historian worth the name, but then you find David Andress bragging about how he was able to write a book on the Terror without once glancing at the Archives and...

Sorry. It's a sore point for me, obviously... D:

_________________
History is written by the victors - Winston Churchill


Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:39 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.