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Rose
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1119
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Author:  Rosalie [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Rose

Now, maybe this is a stupid question: I read in Antonia Fraser's biography that from some point on MA used the rose like a kind of personal symbol (which would be reflected in the famous portrait by Mme Vigée Le Brun, which by the way I find splendid). Do you know if it's true? I've often seen roses associated with MA, but I don't know if it's just a feature of the taste of her time, or something which concerns her personally. And if it is, do you know which was the meaning of this symbolism?

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

I have read about associations with the Hapsburg rose...but much beyond this I do not know. I have only read two or three books about our queen :oops: and have yet to find any detailed information about why it came to be associated with her. Now, I do remember reading how during the Affair of the Necklace, it was arranged that the prostitute posing as Antoinette was to hand Cardinal Rohan a rose as a token of recognition so we do know it became her symbol. I find the a la rose portrait a little too idealized for my liking. :|

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

I read so in "Queen of Fashion", about the rose being an ancient Habsburg symbol. Marie Antoinette with a rose on her portraits would so picturally represent the Alliance, I find it an interesting interpretation.

Plus, roses are symbols of feminity, that would represent Marie Antoinette as THE woman of France, the queen, wife of the king and mother of the Children of France.

Author:  Rosalie [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

That is really interesting! I didn't know about the rose being a Hapsburg symbol, maybe I'll have look around, if I can find some more information.
It's true, that portrait is very idealized, but still...I like it so much :) I don't know why, maybe for its dreamy atmosphere...I think Marie Antoinette liked it particularly too, but I don't know if I remember well...I've read just a couple of books too, so there's still a lot to learn :wink:

Author:  Hans Axel [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

I've always thought that Antoinette had a special "facination" (or whatever you want to call it) with roses, that she liked them the most of all flowers... But maybe it's my own imagination that has come up with this... :wink:

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Indeed, she had a special fascination. She commissionned Redouté, and had drawings lessons with him... to draw roses...

Author:  Hans Axel [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

It's just lovely, I think. How amazing it would be if we could see one of these drawings, maybe they're out there somewhere...

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Oh yes ! I'd love to see them ! :D

Author:  Rosalie [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Yes, I would love to see one too! Also because I particularly like roses (as one can easily understand from my avatar), so it's interesting for me to know that the Queen had a fascnation for them

Author:  Hans Axel [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Who doesn't love roses anyway? It's an extraordinary flower in a way.

Author:  Rosalie [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Yes, Hans Axel, I perfectly agree! They're beautiful and gracious and seeing them always reminds you of the bright days of May...and the perfum! I bought a rose-scented perfume to wear just last week. No wonder they are called the queens of flowers.

Author:  Archiduque [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Hi everybody, it's been long since I last posted at our chèr forum de Antoinette. I had already noticed there used to be a rose in many things related to the Queen, so it's not surprise this beautiful flower to be considered a symbol of her. I found it interesting to read about the relationship about roses and her Habsburg family, and an explanation comes to my mind, yet I don't know if it is correct: for centuries, since around year 1400, the House of Austria practiced a special devotion to Holy Virgin, devoting the family to Her special protection. The rose is one of the symnbols of Virgin Mary, as She is considered the Queen of flowers, the Mystic Rose. Maybe that was why the rose became a symbol of the Habsburgs and, consequently, Marie-Antoinette had this particular link to roses

Author:  Mondeskind [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Pimprenelle wrote:
I read so in "Queen of Fashion", about the rose being an ancient Habsburg symbol. Marie Antoinette with a rose on her portraits would so picturally represent the Alliance, I find it an interesting interpretation.



In Fraser's biography, doesn't she say that the Lily is the Bourbon symbol and the rose is the Hapsburg symbol, so there were many depictions of the rose and lily to symbolize the French-Austrian alliance?

Author:  Mondeskind [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Rosalie wrote:
Yes, Hans Axel, I perfectly agree! They're beautiful and gracious and seeing them always reminds you of the bright days of May...and the perfum! I bought a rose-scented perfume to wear just last week. No wonder they are called the queens of flowers.


Rosalie, in my town there is an ice cream store that makes Rose Petal ice cream in the summer and it is DIVINE!!!! MA would have loved it, I'm sure. :D

Author:  Rosalie [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rose

Wow, I'm sure would love it too, Mondeskind! :D
I didn't think about the fact that the rose is the flower associated to the Virgin Mary, but it's true! Don't know if it had some influence, but it's possible. I don't have Antonia Frazer's biography with me now, being in a foreign country, but I'l control when I go back if it said something about the rose and the lily...of course I remember about the eagle and the lily

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