Marie Antoinette Online Forum
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/

Would you change or add anything
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1446
Page 1 of 2

Author:  candy [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Would you change or add anything

If this has been posted before, please pardon me, but i was wondering, if you were Marie Antoinette would you have done anything different? changed anything to make things better, or maybe worse,I was just wondering, i saw the Titanic on discovery and they were saying all the things they should have done, and maybe people would have had a chance. I think if i was Marie Antoinette, i think I would have done worse.


candy

Author:  reine [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

hm :roll: it's diffuicult to say...

I think for changing something in life, she must have had an overview not only about her life but also about everybody else...about the country

I would have done things differently, but only, because I know a lot of details from books, written long time after the revolution....

But in Marie Antoinettes situation I guess I would be just the same.

Unfortunately, Marie Antoinette was on wrong time wrong place :cry:

reine :angel6:

Author:  Anouk [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

reine wrote:
Unfortunately, Marie Antoinette was on wrong time wrong place :cry:

reine :angel6:


If she would had born another time, we couldn't talk about her now such way!!! It's sad, but her tragical life advanced her. In this way she became a great lady and a great mother of her son, dauphin of France.

Author:  Sillage de la Reine [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

I wouldn't have changed anything if I were her. It's what God destined for all of us. It seems to me, the Revolution seemed inevitable, regardless who was a Queen or King of France during that time. Fate had to take its place! And you're right, if things did change, we wouldn't be in a Site forum dedicated to MA talking about what a great Queen, or person she was!! Her name will forever reign over other Queens!

Author:  dreamoutloud [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. Looking back, we can wish Marie Antoinette and the royal family had done something different, such as been willing to work with Mirabeau or not trying to flee the country (I believe that is the moment when their fate was sealed). But everyone acted the way they did due to a very precise set of circumstances, personal beliefs, personality quirks, etc. While I don't necessarily believe in the inevitability of history, I think it would be hard to say what Marie Antoinette should have done differently given the knowledge she had and her personality/beliefs/general sense of the world. No doubt she did what she thought was best for herself and her family.

Author:  Christophe [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

II think there were a few things that Antoinette could have done differently given her knowledge at the time. These are a few "mistakes" that were not necessarily "bad" on her part, but had serious consequences in her life and that of her family.

1) She could have been a bit more conservative in her spending; a little less on clothing, furniture, the Petit Trianon, etc.


I was just thinking about this the other day: Rose Bertin charged the Queen outrageous prices for clothing simply because she was the Queen, but at the same time Bertin was made popular and doing great business because of the Queen's patronage. Antoinette could have driven a hard bargain with Bertin, something along the lines of "My patronage sells your dresses, so you need to give me a steep discount." Present day designers do this sort of trade-off all the time with their famous clients. The Queen could have done this with all of her craftsmen. I bet if she named her price and refused to buy otherwise, they would have agreed....

2) Avoided favoritism at Court. This single act caused her more harm than anything else. By showing a preference for her friends, and lavishing gifts and favors on them, she angered so many who felt excluded at court and then acted against her.

Author:  Anouk [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

dreamoutloud wrote:
...or not trying to flee the country (I believe that is the moment when their fate was sealed)


Yes, I also think it was. To translate it to wartime language, their flee was the "casus belli"...

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

Christophe wrote:
II think there were a few things that Antoinette could have done differently given her knowledge at the time. These are a few "mistakes" that were not necessarily "bad" on her part, but had serious consequences in her life and that of her family.

1) She could have been a bit more conservative in her spending; a little less on clothing, furniture, the Petit Trianon, etc.


I was just thinking about this the other day: Rose Bertin charged the Queen outrageous prices for clothing simply because she was the Queen, but at the same time Bertin was made popular and doing great business because of the Queen's patronage. Antoinette could have driven a hard bargain with Bertin, something along the lines of "My patronage sells your dresses, so you need to give me a steep discount." Present day designers do this sort of trade-off all the time with their famous clients. The Queen could have done this with all of her craftsmen. I bet if she named her price and refused to buy otherwise, they would have agreed....

2) Avoided favoritism at Court. This single act caused her more harm than anything else. By showing a preference for her friends, and lavishing gifts and favors on them, she angered so many who felt excluded at court and then acted against her.


I utterly agree. I think Marie Antoinette lacked a certain open-mindedness that would have avoided her to antagonize people. As Machiavel underlines it, it's often wiser to forgive your enemies, for the will be all the more grateful and thus reliable. Instead of that, she displayed her resentment to influential people that only craved for forgiveness and chose her "maison" only according to her preferences. That's totally understandable as far as human nature is concerned, but quite unwise for a queen. That being said, this certain narrow-mindedness stemmed undeniably for her education and a life both priviledged and cooped up. I can't imagine how one could not, with such an upbringing and surroundings, not have the behaviour hof a spoilt child. I must say I find that MA, after all, was in many ways far better than what she might have been, which speaks volumes about her personal qualities, especially her cleverness.

Author:  candy [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

This is what i was referring to when i said i would have done worse, I agree with you Christophe, I would have had preference for my friends, and knowing how I am, I would have went over the budget, not thinking of the consequences, or shall i say not caring, I am the queen, i want the best.

candy

Author:  AxelRocksMyWorld [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

I would hope that my children's lives would have overrode my devotion to France and my husband being that I would have gotten the heck outta dodge while I still had a chance with my babies in tow. But Antoinette was brought up with a mind frame that someone like myself couldn't possibly understand all of that engrained royal blood and divine right way of thinking. Was she maybe not able to really grasp that "underlings" could pose a threat as big as the world? I don't think Antoinette could ever "think" like a person below her, not by fault of her own or lack of compassion but just be being who she was. I am an American, could I really fathom what a child in Etheopia is facing? Even with all of the media today I still live in a bubble. Her world was a bubble only carefully stepped out of. Royals are royals from birth and when you truly believe you rule by almighty God's own plan, what could ever really harm you?

We also think about all of the glamour that came with being the Queen of France but my gosh, she suffered as hard or harder in the end (long before the end really) than those around her. Antoinette's life was no fairy tale. She was one Hell of an awesome lady.

Author:  Baronne [ Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

Of course if I was Marie-Antoinette I would of loved to change some aspects of my life knowing about the consequences that would follow. But I do not believe that she would of have been this famous today if she her life was perfect. In fact, if she did everything that she was supposed to have done, she would probably have been forgotten like most of the french queens before her but instead her spirit, her flaws,her extraordinary and scandalous life made her a legend.

We love you M-A!

Author:  baron de batz [ Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

That's true; most French Queens were forgotten, except MA and Marie Stuart. They stayed in the background, but MA's rebellious spirit made her different from the start.

Author:  Rosalie [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

Baronne wrote:
Of course if I was Marie-Antoinette I would of loved to change some aspects of my life knowing about the consequences that would follow. But I do not believe that she would of have been this famous today if she her life was perfect. In fact, if she did everything that she was supposed to have done, she would probably have been forgotten like most of the french queens before her but instead her spirit, her flaws,her extraordinary and scandalous life made her a legend.

We love you M-A!


Perfectly agree!
I think her mistakes are one of the aspects that make her so charming and interesting even now.

Author:  mad4marie [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

i would've insisted that the members of the 'flight to varennes' dressed as peasants and rode in the crudest of transportation.

Author:  Christophe [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you change or add anything

dreamoutloud wrote:
Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. Looking back, we can wish Marie Antoinette and the royal family had done something different, such as been willing to work with Mirabeau or not trying to flee the country (I believe that is the moment when their fate was sealed).


---Or better still, we could wish their flight had been successful; they escaped the clutches of the Revolution, and Louis XVI had rode into Paris at the head of the Restoration armies, instead of his brother. As long as we're wishing....

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/