Marie Antoinette Online Forum
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/

What If Marie Had Been French?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2646
Page 1 of 1

Author:  antiquefinder [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  What If Marie Had Been French?

Here's a question to ponder. What if Marie Antoinette had been French instead of Austrian? Would things have turned out the same for her, or would the French accepted her as one of their own and been more lightly on her? I would love to hear other's thoughts.

Author:  Lilly [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

Marie Antoinette was half French. Her Father Stephen of Lorraine was the grandson of Phillipe, brother of Louis XIV.

Author:  antiquefinder [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

I have never heard that Marie was half french??? Her father was Francis l, Holy Roman Emperor. Where did you get your sources from?

Author:  Lilly [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

It is common knowledge that Marie Antoinette did have French blood- descended from Louis XIV's brother Phillipe Duc d'Orleans second marriage. Her Grandmother was Phillipe's daughter. Stephen of Lorraine and Francis I are one and the same person. He was born Francis Stephen.

Marie Antoinette was at least as French as Louis XVI was.....
They can both trace lineage to Louis XIII and Anne of Austria.

MA, was not called "Marie".

Author:  History Detective [ Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

Lilly wrote:
Marie Antoinette did have French blood- descended from Louis XIV's brother Phillipe Duc d'Orleans second marriage. Her Grandmother was Phillipe's daughter.

Lilly, this is fascinating--I didn't know this! It seems that would then make Marie-Antoinette a cousin to Louis XVI. My brain gets boggled when I attempt calculating cousin relationships. Do you happen to know what type of cousinship this would be (i.e. seconds, thirds, once or twice removeds, etc.)?

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

Royal lineages being entwined, Marie-Antoinette was indeed as French as Louis XVI was.


It is important to point out that no King had married a French-born princess since Marguerite de Valois – however Henry IV was not supposed to become King when he married her, seeing as there were three Valois heirs available. To be fair then, it would bring us back to Louise de Lorraine-Vaudemont, wife of Henry III: a choice of wife that was deemed unworthy of a King at the time. Marrying foreign princesses was a common practice, which aimed at strengthening the alliance or to bring financial benefits.

It remains true however that the Franco-Austrian alliance was resented by the French, and that Marie-Antoinette, both due to the circumstances she found herself in and poor personal choices, came to symbolize this alliance.


Knowing whether or not she would have gotten the chop if she had been French-born amounts to speculation. The fact is that Madame Elisabeth was executed as well, in spite of her being a French royal. Both women had been charged with treason, and Marie-Antoinette could have been just as guilty of it had she been French.

Author:  Lilly [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

Lilly, this is fascinating--I didn't know this! It seems that would then make Marie-Antoinette a cousin to Louis XVI. My brain gets boggled when I attempt calculating cousin relationships.[/quote]

It can be so confusing!! Let me try to show you how the family line descended.

Son of Louis XIII and Anne of Austria/only Brother of Louis XIV the Sun King:

Phillipe I Duc d' Orleans & Elizabeth Charlotte (His 2nd wife)
They had 2 children:

1. Phillipe II (1674-1723) 2. Elisabeth Charlotte (1676-1744)

Louis Phillip d' Orleans(1703-1752) -1st cousins- Francis Stephen(1708-1765)

Louis Phillipe I (Le Gros)(1725-1785)

Louis Phillipe II (Phillipe Egalite)(1747-1793) Marie Antoinette (1755-1793)




Louis XIV (1638-1715) / Brother of Phillipe I Duc d' Orleans Father of:

Louis Le Grand Dauphin (1661-1711) Father of:

Louis Duc de Bourgogne (1682-1712) Father of:

Louis Duc of Brittany Died 1712 age 5 years Brother of:

Louis XV (1710-1774) Father of:

Louis Dauphin........Father of:

Louis XVI (1754-1793)


Everyone here is descended from Louis XIII and Anne of Austria.
Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI were cousins as he descends from Louis XIV and she from his brother Phillipe I.

Phillipe II and his sister Elisabeth Charlotte, mother of Francis Stephen were first cousins with the Dauphin Louis Le Grand/ Louis XIV 's son.
Phillipe II married their first cousin, a legitimized daughter of Louis XIV and Madame Montespan.

Author:  History Detective [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What If Marie Had Been French?

Thank you, Lilly! I am often much amazed by the royal family relationships--and by those of the nobility, as well.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/