Marie Antoinette Online Forum

Habsburg Jaw....what exactly is this?
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Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:49 pm ]
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How were her eyes, Louis ? Isn't it difficult to say ? Some pretend that they were round, indeed. Madame Vigee-Lebrun reports that they were not large.

I think they were quite prominent, as it often happens in case of a non cured myopia. Prominent, bulging, and "almost blue".

But, round, I don't think they were, referring to her brothers and sisters.
Joseph II

Marie Caroline

Author:  Louis XVI [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:58 pm ]
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Yes you are quite right Pim! :D They are not quite round...I should have used large. Like Louis Charles, I get so excited, my fingers type away... :lol:

Author:  Marie-Antoinette [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:09 pm ]
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Those busts of Marie Antoinette are very glad my post became of interest and not of boredome :D

Author:  Louis XVI [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:44 pm ]
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Thank you for posting it Marie-Antoinette! :D

Author:  Marie-Antoinette [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:56 pm ]
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You are all very welcome! :)

Author:  papillon [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:57 pm ]
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where are those busts of the queen found?

Author:  Archiduque [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:19 pm ]
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Interesting and nice thread, how much we all love to speak about Marie Antoinette, don't we? Yet, everything everyone's said about her nose and her eyes and her Hapsburg lower lip is all true, but it is not exactly what this thread started about: her jaw. I have read the Hapsburg jaw was another characteristic feature of the Austrian imperial family, as many members of it had a rather prominent jaw, kind of what is called in Spanish prognatismo (I don't know the exact word in English, I'll find out later), as you can see in many portraits of Hapsburg Emperors, Kings, Princes or Archdukes (not that I am one of them :wink: )
There is a famous portrait of Charles V on horseback after the battle of Mülberg were this jaw can be clearly seen, it was painted by Tiziano (quite a GREAT painting by the way). Antoinette had this kind of jaw, too. I hope it is interesting for you to read!

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:23 pm ]
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Very interesting Archiduque!
I had not distinguished the nuance but you are right! :D

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Habsburg Jaw....what exactly is this?

Genetics are quite interesting.

papillon wrote:
where are those busts of the queen found?

Wouldn't have the busts been destroyed during the Revolution or was it after the Restoration that the busts were created? :|

Author:  Rosalie [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Habsburg Jaw....what exactly is this?

Thanks for the explanation Archiduke, I didn't know about a Habsburg jaw!

Anyway, it's true; this is Charles V's portrait: ... hlberg.jpg.
And I think it's even more evident in this one: ... /carlo.jpg

If you compare this MA's portrait, the likeliness is quite evident.

Author:  Vive [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Habsburg Jaw....what exactly is this?

Halibut374 wrote:
however I am skeptical about her having the condition because no painting or sculpture of her indicates that she had the disfigurement.

I disagree. It's subtle, but David's sketch of Marie Antointte riding to the guillotine seems to show her with a protruding lower lip.

It may not appear in other paintings because the artist would naturally want to flatter the archduchess/dauphine/queen so wouldn't emphasize a flaw. Of course, perhaps David, a revolutionary, was purposefully emphasizing the queen's less flattering characteristics so we'll never know for certain (although since David sketched this on the fly I doubt he had time to plant propaganda). I could have sworn contemporary descriptions mentioned her 'Hapsburg lip' but I'm not positive.

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Habsburg Jaw....what exactly is this?

The Hapsburg Jaw is a deformity as a result of several generations of inbreeding. Thanks to the continuous incest especially for the Spanish Habsburg family it ultimately ended the line there at Charles II in 1700. ... -of-kings/ ... _dTeI6bI5Y

From the MSN article

"Records show that the Spanish Habsburg kings frequently engaged in consanguineous marriage(or marriage between biological relatives); nine of the 11 marriages that occurred over the dynasty's 200-year reign were consanguineous, with two uncle-niece marriages and one first-cousin marriage."

Author:  antiquefinder [ Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Habsburg Jaw....what exactly is this?

The same thing happened with the Egyptian kings and queens. They had defects from inbreeding.

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