Marie Antoinette Online Forum
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Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1283
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Author:  Christophe [ Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

Has anyone seen this article before? I stumbled across it and was quite horrified. Opinions??


http://www.marcjimenez.com/autores_leng ... Aleman.htm

Author:  jimcheval [ Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

The actual site looks a little peculiar:

http://www.marcjimenez.com/

but these uninformed comments about MA come from a book by Helge Hesse:

http://www.marcjimenez.com/autores_leng ... _Hesse.htm

Author:  annies sis [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

That article read as if it had been written by a person who had already made up their mind about our beloved queen. People need to remember that at the time she lived, there was so much propaganda about her out in France that her image was tarnished. It was however, propaganda, and not the truth.

Author:  Christophe [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

From what I gather, Helge Hesse is a German author of historical biographies; having read the excerpt linked above, all I can say is that his/her research standards must be very low. It's a shame that publishers are not more exacting with the credentials of these pseudo-historians.

Author:  annies sis [ Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

Agreed. I hate it when people read one piece about a historical figure and think that it makes them experts.

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

annies sis wrote:
i know. even though she started off as the not-so smart- dauphine, she picked up quick.


Sorry if I being a little off topic now but, I think she what made her seem less "intelligent" was her poor education. It seems to me she was rather shrewd. I believe she was very witty and clever, not in the academic sense, but I think if she had a better education I think she would have been also "intelligent" in the academic sense too.

When I research a historical figure I try to read from legitimate resources, and it to have the most complete, accurate, detailed and least unbiased research. I tend to get nervous when I have less than three resources and I strive to have more than three resources when I am researching anyone because every historian has their own opinion and bias.

This may sound snobby but by the looks of it, I may have better reasearch ethic than that chump, and I am pretty young and unexperienced!

I also think there are some things that you have to question too. For instance the myth that womens' petticoats burned and as a result they burned and was a leading cause of death. Now this is when my common sense steps in because of the following
1. The mentality of people. Since women were cooking over open flames, call me crazy but I think since they had experience with it they were capable of learning methods to avoid being burned.
2. In the 18th century wool was the most popular fabric which is fairly flame retardant, it smells horrible when the fiber smoulders , but at least the wearer isn't burned. Women would wear wool petticoats and especially wool aprons if they probably wore linen dresses.

For me, if it does not align with historical mentality or seems too outrageous- I question it.

Wow. I apologize for the long tirade everyone!
:oops:

Author:  Christophe [ Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

Here are the two passages which troubled me the most:

Quote:
An encounter with her could be extremely humiliating; no-one could address her before she had first spoken to them.


This statement completely ignores the factor of court etiquette: this was not a rule set by M.A., but a matter of official policy in the presence of a monarch; secondly, the author's conclusion is not supported by the evidence given. How exactly is waiting to be addressed before speaking 'extremely humiliating'? It seems like simple good manners to me, when in the presence of a superior.

Quote:
In the mean time Marie Antoinette used the opportunity to engage in amorous liaisons with courtiers and favourites.


This statement is blatant slander; as we all know that there is not a shred of evidence to support it other than the libels printed at the time, which do not make credible sources. It's rather like writing a biography about a celebrity today based only on what is printed in the tabloids.

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

Christophe wrote:
Here are the two passages which troubled me the most:

Quote:
An encounter with her could be extremely humiliating; no-one could address her before she had first spoken to them.


This statement completely ignores the factor of court etiquette: this was not a rule set by M.A., but a matter of official policy in the presence of a monarch; secondly, the author's conclusion is not supported by the evidence given. How exactly is waiting to be addressed before speaking 'extremely humiliating'? It seems like simple good manners to me, when in the presence of a superior.

Quote:
In the mean time Marie Antoinette used the opportunity to engage in amorous liaisons with courtiers and favourites.


This statement is blatant slander; as we all know that there is not a shred of evidence to support it other than the libels printed at the time, which do not make credible sources. It's rather like writing a biography about a celebrity today based only on what is printed in the tabloids.


Wow. I'm not even sure how to respond to that. No explanation or context..... incredible.

Author:  jimcheval [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

Honestly, how much energy do you want to devote to every misstatement about MA out there? This appears to be an obscure quote from an obscure book on an obscure Web site. If the book ever got well-known enough to even be criticized, the author would probably be ecstatic.

Author:  Christophe [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

I correct them where ever I find them; it has become a favorite passtime of mine.

Author:  Chronicdaydreamer [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

Hi, Im new here and I havent read through the 14 pages of posts, but personally the Sophia Coppola movie is what made me research Marie Antoinette more and therefore got me more interested in her as a person. Before all I had ever known was she was beheaded and supposedly said "Let them eat cake". Now I've ordered 4 books about her and cant wait to read more about her. :book:

Author:  annies sis [ Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

First may I say welcome to the forum chronicdaydreamer! It's always great to get more people interested in our favorite queen! I to became very interested in MA after I saw the Sophia Coppola movie in 2006 and you will find many posts on the forum dedicated to discussing the film. If you are seeking more info on Antoinette, may I suggest the Antonia Fraser novel, Marie Antoinette The Journey; Evelyne Levers novel, Marie Antoinette the Last Queen of France; and/or Stefan Zweig's book, Marie Antoinette The Portrait of an Average Woman. Those are just a few of my favorites but there are also posts dedicated to Marie Antoinette books as well.

Secondly, Hellou_Librorum has a perfect point when they mentioned how MA was intelligent but simply didnt really show an interest in academics, not to say that she wasnt smart. That was the point I had tried to make earlier. :P

Author:  Marcel Champney [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Marie Antoinette as a part of the pop culture.

I recently purchased this doll, a Pullip, that is inspired by Marie Antoinette. She is even more lovely in person.

It's not an exact replica of MA, nor is it meant to be. But I loved it so much I had to buy her.
Image

Image

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