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Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1480
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Author:  Phateh [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

I have recieved an essay question that asks whether Marie Antoinette was an innocent victim or if she was in fact an extravagent playgirl. Personally, I think she was innocent. Share your reasons of your views!

Author:  reine [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

She was a girl/woman who wants to have fun.....

but most of the time quite naiv....and innocent

reine :angel6:

Author:  Anouk [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

omg what an essay question!
She was neither.
She was a woman with ideas, wishes and desires- that's so normal.

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

I think she was playful, with men, especially and at the same time she remained long naive and innocent. And for sure, she was extravagant and pleasure-loving. She lacked purpose in her life before the births of her children, and before she started to become aware or the troubles that were looming. You can clearly see she was a shrewd and clever woman, but she nobody left her any kind of initiative, apart from her expenditures ... That explains a lot, to me.

Author:  Lilly [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

It seems that most women, Marie Antoinette as well , are a little of both. Oh to be young and beautiful - and even more fun to be powerful too. Think about being a teenage Queen and having the world at your disposal. I think when she was young and first became Queen, she was a party girl, she liked gambling, going to Paris and partying generally and clothing buying, the extravagance is known, although it was no more excessive than any other royal of the day. She probably flirted and had a great time.....this is what young girls do. It does not mean her virtue wasn't in tact. Obvoiusly, later in life she would not engage in this same type of behavior The fun she had in her youth could have never been forseen to have such consequences for her later.Can you imagine if in our late 30's we were being accused of what we had done as teens? Motherhood changes almost all women and when it came for Marie Antoinette, she matured as most of us do. I think you can be a partygirl and be a good person and I think her virtue was intact.

Author:  reine [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

Lilly wrote:
Motherhood changes almost all women and when it came for Marie Antoinette, she matured as most of us do. I think you can be a partygirl and be a good person and I think her virtue was intact.


I do agree :angel8:

reine :angel6:

Author:  Rosalie [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

I agree with Lilly and Reine.
I think she was inocente, in the sense that she never did anything that actually damaged people. Her only mistakes concerned the image she should have given of herself. Maybe the point was that she was too naive and innocent when a young girl-and she didn't realized the society in which she lived required a certain type of etiquette.
Of course, when she was young she loved parties. But I often think: what do you think you would do, if you were a very young girl, and your husband didn't show interest toward you, and you were surrounded by people who bothered you with suffocating rules, and nobody really asked for your opinion and noone was able to give you really good and wise advice-BUT you could have everything material thing you wanted? I think I would do exactly the same: trying too forget my loneliness and do the best of my time.

Author:  jolie_blon [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

More likely than not, she was very naive.

Author:  Rosalie [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

yes, she was a spontaneous type, which could lead to naiveté. But she got more mature with the years, especially when she had children. Anyway, I think her innocence (even her naiveté) is a fascinating part of her character, and probably we wuldn't love her so much otherwise...

Author:  reader31 [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

This is not a question that can be asked about A QUEEN. She was a queen, a queen with all the qualities that you could imagine at a woman.She was more than France could bear, in my oppinion. Noone ever questions the dignity and morality of any other queen, but we talk and talk about the lovers of Marie Antoinette.If the king didn't know about any infidelities than we are not allowed to question her honour either.She had 3 small children, she could not possibly have anything else in mind at that time.Again, this is not a question to ask about a royal descendant...wake up.

Author:  ShaktiValkyrie [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

Why not? Seeing as this is a site to do just that. In my opinion I think it's a good thing to be asking these questions. In the majority of cases, when the name Marie Antoinette is brought up, all sorts of negative connotations that have been attached to her are the first thing people think of. That of media and history are two different things. Even today media tells us about the woman who said,"Let them eat cake." but doesn't bother to correct that. Only by asking questions can we realize the truth behind the rumor. In that case, she never said that. The other side is to learn why the rumor came up in the first place. That alone can tell us about society at that time. The only way for people to find out the truth about her is to ask about her. Again, in my opinion, the only reason she has such a high profile is because she was Queen during a horrendous and cruel time. It isn't called The Terror for nothing.
Quote:
Noone ever questions the dignity and morality of any other queen


I'm going to have to disagree with you there. The very first one that comes to mind is Elizabeth I of England~The Virgin Queen. As with Antoinette, she is surrounded by scandal.
Queen Caroline is surrounded by marriage, adultery, and sex scandals. Mary I of Scotland, Catherine de' Medici. While not Queen Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire sure made a name for herself. How far back do you want to go? You can go to the year 60 CE and look at Boudica. The queen of the Iceni who brought together waring tribes and fought the Romans. The stuff that was made up about her could make Joan Rivers blush.
Even further we have Cleopatra and Hatshepsut. The latter was surrounded by so much controversy, sex, and death that people then did all they could to try and strike her from history and had vicious rumors spread about her. Or we can jump up a couple thousand years to Princess Diana. There are tons of rumors about her and her possible lovers.
What I'm getting at is Marie Antoinette is far from being the only Queen or Royal whose dignity and morality has been questioned.

Quote:
this is not a question to ask about a royal descendant


To phrase a sentence like that implies that the one asking the question is somehow inferior. This is not the case. From all the questions and thoughts I have seen here, they are all in good taste and far from dis respectable. We are all here to learn and the best way to do that is to ask questions. Otherwise we might believe the nasty rumors that were spread instead of finding out how strong and courageous Antoinette was. She just had the misfortune of being Queen during a pivotal point in France and became a scapegoat almost from the start.

Author:  Lilly [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

Bravo ShaktiValkyrie - that was beautifully said! You have a wonderful knowledge in female rulers, how impressive!

Marie Antoinette was born into royalty, but the bottom line is - she was a woman like the rest of us women. Feeling emotions just like the rest of us.
So I absolutely think it is fine to question how she may have felt - it may help in further understanding her.

Author:  ShaktiValkyrie [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

Thank you very much for the compliment. :) So many women have done great things in this world. I hope that one day soon they to will become apart of the history books and not something you have to go out of you way to learn about. However, there is a bit of excitement of learning about about a woman that you haven't heard of before. lol
And I completely agree with your post.

Author:  baron de batz [ Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

A wonderful description of the Queen in the memoirs of the Baronne d'Oberkirch...

Firstly in French to give it its full 18th century beauty:

"C'est une de ces étoiles dont l'éclat, toujours voilé pour la terre, n'est visible que pour Dieu"

She is one of those stars, whose light, always veiled to earthly eyes, is only visible to God"

And that was a contemporary writing, before 1789! How exact a description.

Author:  Leisel86 [ Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was Marie Antoinette innocent or a playgirl?

She was an innocent, naive 14 year old girl who had no idea how to rule a country or how to make profound decisions, nor was she taught to. Upon coming to France, she was completely unprepared for her role as Dauphine and later, Queen of France, through no fault of her own. Granted, she liked to flirt, but what teenage girl doesn't? Especially when the men she was flirting with were certainly more handsome and interesting than her husband! As she grew older, though, like say around her mid twenties, she should have figured out by then what was appropriate and what wasn't for a Queen who was required to live a public life. So in that case, she was only paritially innocent, and the only thing she was guilty of in the end was treason.

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