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 What would she do? 
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Post Re: What would she do?
jimcheval wrote:
annies sis wrote:
Are you saying they made MA porn!?

No I'm not, but yes they did.

Or at least its Old Regime equivalent.

Hopefully some people here at least are familiar with the rich trove of pornographic cartoons depicting MA with an assortment of different people in a variety of situations. And a number of the Revolutionary pamphlets too are pornographic fantasies (the title that comes to mind right off includes the phrase "fureurs uterines" - uterine rages.)

oh, haha, i thought you were talking about porn as in film. haha. no, i knew about the horrible pamphlets.

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Mon May 04, 2009 12:21 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
i couldnt agree with all of you more!

but i do believe she would try to get back on the throne because of her pride and beliefs. :queen:


Mon May 04, 2009 3:43 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
But why? Dont you think that after being killed by her nation she would want kinda.....a break? Please explain why you think she would want back her crown. :D

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Mon May 04, 2009 4:24 pm
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Post Re: What would she do?
annies sis wrote:
But why? Dont you think that after being killed by her nation she would want kinda.....a break? Please explain why you think she would want back her crown. :D



well i have read a few books on her and one thing about her was that she was very strong throughout the revolution and her pride was really hide she always wanted the monarchy to be restored and thats how it was back then thats how she was raised to be that proud


Tue May 05, 2009 4:10 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
marieantoine wrote:
annies sis wrote:
But why? Dont you think that after being killed by her nation she would want kinda.....a break? Please explain why you think she would want back her crown. :D



well i have read a few books on her and one thing about her was that she was very strong throughout the revolution and her pride was really hide she always wanted the monarchy to be restored and thats how it was back then thats how she was raised to be that proud


That's true, she was a very proud woman, but don't forget that her elemental desire was to save her family, especially her children from the mob what killed her best friend and her husband. In this situation she had no chioce, so she had to arrange the most important thing: the safety of her family.

Yes, one more thing: I think we should determine her role on the timeline of the revolution. It changed a lot during 4 years. It is not whatever we talk about her proud of 1789 or 1793?

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Tue May 05, 2009 11:55 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
I'd have to disagree with those who dared compare MA to Paris Hilton and those alike. Paris is a self-evolved spoiled girl who cares of nothing but herself. . Yes, she loved to party and can be frivolous just as any wealthy girl from a prominent family would, but unlike the others...MA had a nurturing nature whether you bring her back alive, or if she was born in the modern world. If she had come back alive, she wouldn't go back into the partying scene... this time around she'd be a wiser women...maybe things would be different for her if she wasnt with Louis XVI, who was soo shy and awkward, which was one of the reasons why she was so bored and turned to shopping and gambling, and having extravagant fanciful parties. She'll probably be a little more settled down. She loved children and dogs, so I truly believe MA would have done things like contribute her money for orphanages or adopt children (like Angelina Jolie does)or be spokesperson for animals, RSPCA. That part of her wouldn't change.

In these day and age, a women doesn't have to be in politics to help change the world, there's many other ways for us to reach out to others, especially for those who have the name and the money...the power. So that's what our dear MA would've done, and maybe perhaps be a fashion trendsetter along the way.

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Sat May 09, 2009 7:07 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
Sillage de la Reine wrote:
I'd have to disagree with those who dared compare MA to Paris Hilton and those alike. Paris is a self-evolved spoiled girl who cares of nothing but herself. . Yes, she loved to party and can be frivolous just as any wealthy girl from a prominent family would, but unlike the others...


I agree with you. A "nowadays Marie Antoinette" shouldn't be compared to Paris. Her charm and acts came from her character, not from the age she lived in. Now she would be unique too, I think.

Sillage de la Reine wrote:
She loved children and dogs, so I truly believe MA would have done things like contribute her money for orphanages or adopt children (like Angelina Jolie does)or be spokesperson for animals, RSPCA. That part of her wouldn't change.


Yes, it would be far better if we compared her to Angelina. I had already loved this actress before she adopted that lovely cambodian boy and other orphans, but now I respect her. I feel the same respect for Marie Antoinette, who was a really generous woman as well. She cared a lot to other women's childeren, even they were not as rich as her own children.

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Sat May 09, 2009 9:15 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
I completely agree with you, Sillage and Anouk.
I think she was such a party animal in her youth because it was her way to defend herself from loneliness, and also, maybe, to face the engaging and difficult life she had at Versailles. But, as we said elsewhere, she changed when she had her children.
I think today she would be able to choose her life, so she wouldn't need distraction. I think she would be more settled, as Anouk said, even if, of course, she would retain her lively character. She would also love fashion, but she wouldn't be a flimsy and frivolous person.
And, of course, she would be very charming!

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Sat May 09, 2009 7:36 pm
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Post Re: What would she do?
Honestly, I wouldn't beatify MA anymore than I would condemn her. She seems to have been a kind enough person in her youth, but also somewhat oblivious.

I don't know that I'd describe her as a party animal though, especially not by the standards of the time (when balls, etc., were common entertainment, and there were no movies or television). No royal of her time ever came near the Regent or Louis XV at his most libidinous ni this regard.

What has been suggested more than once is that having a sexually useless husband pushed her into frivolous (but no more than frivolous) behavior that was only a compensation for both loneliness and more than a little public humiliation. It's bad enough being a young attractive woman whose lump of a husband can't perform; when your whole public function is to be a kind of upscale brood mare, and failure in that area was widely noted, it had to have been pretty hard.

But a party animal? Read up on the ballets roses of the Regency or the Parc des Cerfs if you want to know about some real partying.

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Sun May 10, 2009 12:36 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
I only meant she liked parties, Jim, I didn't imply she was party-addicted or something. Obviously, if you have read my previous posts on this forum, you'll know I don't think this about her at all.
Moreover, I'm not a native speaker, so I can have used the wrong expression.
What I meant is that she liked partying in her youth, and I added that according to me this is due to the environment she was in. After all, she was a young person who looked for distractions, as anyone would do at that age in that situation. I wasn't implying her love of fun was due to her sexual frustrations either, not at all. I just guess a young girl can have felt lonely once brought to such a complicated place as Versailles, which was not where she was born.
This means neither beatifying her nor condemning her. It's just elementary psychology. Moreover, she liked enjoying pleasures, in the good sense of the word (I mean pleasures like music, company of friends etc.), even later in her life. So I find it quite normal that she ejoyed parties and having fun when she was young.
What I was suggesting is that this doens't imply that she would be a kind of Paris Hilton today. She would just be a lively person who would love going to the cinema, going dancing and enjoying walks in the countryside with friends.

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Sun May 10, 2009 7:24 pm
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Post Re: What would she do?
Greetings all

I believe that it is in very poor taste to compare our dear La Reine with such an unworthy, common character as Paris Hilton! I don't think you can compare MA with anyone. There simply is no equivalent to her. Never has been and never will be!
Vive La Reine!


Tue May 12, 2009 2:02 pm
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Post Re: What would she do?
In our own time, our dear La Reine was compared to much worse, I'm sure.

More to the point, her image in history, deserved or not, echoes Ms. Hilton's in many ways. As far as that goes, it's not impossible that one day Hilton, like Angelina Jolie and the Widow Capet herself will suddenly turn serious and do worthy work. The scion of wealth who goes wild in their youth, then gets serious with age is a common enough phenomenon.

We mustn't forget that even if MA didn't say "Let them eat cake", her reputation for obliviousness and excess spending was such that the libel stuck quickly. If one were to imagine the words in the mouth of a modern figure, I doubt there's one more apt than Ms. Hilton.

My own idea of MA is not in the least idealized. I think she was largely a pawn in other people's games - not least her mother's - and ill-equipped to deal with some of the nastier court intrigue. And of course she certainly didn't deserve either prison nor execution. But I doubt she's someone whom I would have found all that interesting, any more than when, in the Eighties, I went to charity balls in NYC and met blonde, oblivious trust fund orphans who simply had no idea how privileged their lives were, I found them interesting.

As I've said before, I think she appeared at her best in the heart of her tragedies. But it took an ordeal by fire to bring out any real character in her.

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Tue May 12, 2009 5:10 pm
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Post Re: What would she do?
Wow, thank you all for your posts!
Yeah, I really dont think she would be a party animal at all. That I think would be almost insulting to her. She woldnt want the people to hate her again.

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Wed May 13, 2009 6:37 pm
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Post Re: What would she do?
I would hope if she came back that she would write a biography that would be a very good read :)


Thu May 14, 2009 4:40 am
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Post Re: What would she do?
Someone like Paris Hilton, whom I admit I don't know personally :wink: ..., seems like a constructed personality. That is a modern day phenomenon, which did not exist in the 18th century. All comparison is therefore impossible. MA was not constructed, she simply was who she was from birth, a major European princess. Her mother admittedly found a good match for her, the best around , in 1770, but she would have ended up in some important European court anyway. She was part of an influential royal family, and her noble bloodline stretched back centuries. Modern day "princesses" like Paris Hilton are purpose built, they are creatures of the media, and they reply to a need for people to forget a while their everyday humdrum existences and dream of being extravagant or beautiful or outrageous. MA's rôle was quite different: she was there to procreate, and to represent the Court of France. Unlike Paris Hilton she was basically never really free to do what she wanted, nor did she really frequent the "people", as this was quite unheard of and would have been seen as lowering herself. The "people" were OK for brief encounters, acts of charity, words of kindness, a benevolent smile, but she was destined to be a figure of representation and motherhood. The fact that her destiny brought this radiant and regal Queen into farcical situations like spending some time pleading with a grocer's wife at Varennes for the fate of her family is to France's eternal shame. For me she was a guest on their soil and they made her pay dearly the price of change.

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Fri May 15, 2009 10:16 am
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