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 Thank you friends! Merci mes amis! 
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Post Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Hello from Nice, France.
I have just joined in, found this forum by chance as I was researching Internet about Marie Antoinette and rococo, my favourite era of humanity.
It is a great pleasure to join and to see so many young people here, discussing and adhering to the pre-revolutionary era of France, to the aristocratic times of the "grand nation" that had been the pulse of Europe and the world for almost 700 years before the tragedy struck. The tragedy that has become known as the French Revolution, the event that has wiped out the chance of the creating of the most just government ever to be conceived by mankind, the Enlightened Absolute Monarchy.
As Edmund Burke, one of the famous Irish philosophers of the times has described, the true glory has disappeared with the last French royal family:
Quote:
It is now sixteen or seventeen years since I saw the queen of France, then the dauphiness, at Versailles; and surely never lighted on this orb, which she hardly seemed to touch, a more delightful vision. I saw her just above the horizon, decorating and cheering the elevated sphere she had just begun to move in, glittering like the morning star full of life and splendor and joy. 0h, what a revolution! and what a heart must I have, to contemplate without emotion that elevation and that fall! Little did I dream, when she added titles of veneration to those of enthusiastic, distant, respectful love, that she should ever be obliged to carry the sharp antidote against disgrace concealed in that bosom; little did I dream that I should have lived to see such disasters fallen upon her, in a nation of gallant men, in a nation of men of honor, and of cavaliers! I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards, to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult.

But the age of chivalry is gone; that of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded, and the glory of Europe is extinguished forever. Never, never more, shall we behold that generous loyalty to rank and sex, that proud submission, that dignified obedience, that subordination of the heart, which kept alive, even in servitude itself, the spirit of an exalted freedom! The unbought grace of life, the cheap defense of nations, the nurse of manly sentiment and heroic enterprise is gone. It is gone, that sensibility of principle, that chastity of honor, which felt a stain like a wound, which inspired courage whilst it mitigated ferocity, which ennobled whatever it touched, and under which vice itself lost half its evil, by losing all its grossness.

Edmund Burke - 1793

Reading especially the second paragraph, one can understand that he was a clairvoyant too.
To me Marie Antoinette, Louis XVI and the last royal family represents the times of highest spiritual development of this planet. We may have progressed materially, but not mentally.

However; it pleases me to see so many people of even young generation discovering what has been lost, perhaps there is a chance of bringing some of these wonderful times back, if at least in our thoughts and beliefs.

I will be adding more posts about my thoughts and would like to inform you all that I am in process of writing a screenplay for a short film about how art has evolved through the ages and yes, Marie Antoinette will be one of the main protagonists :D

Keep the faith,
Ivan


Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:20 pm
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Oh that's wonderful! It sounds fascinating! I would love to make a film of Marie Antoinette's life myself. Ideally, it would be as gorgeous of the Sophia Coppola film and as accurate as three biographies, and I would add little details such as Louis XVI scampering about during the rising ceremonies etc. Enough about my silly future film! Congratulations! That passage of Marie Antoinette and of France is beautiful, I should have known Edmund Burke is Irish!


P.S.

I like your avatar, it is pretty avatar. Did you draw it yourself?

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Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:44 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Welcome! And I aso wanted to write that I really like your avatar!

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Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Welcome to the forums! J'adore you avatar, did you draw it yourself?

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Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:04 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Thank you all, I have not been to this forum in some time, and see there has been a lot of activity!
That avatar is young Marie-Antoinette and believe it or not, I have found it online.
I have been searching for her pictures a long time.
:roll:


Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:22 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
I am glad you’re back! I hope I will hear more from you in future, I like your first post and the quotation. :angel3:

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Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:41 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Merci, thank you dear Marija Vera and all that have written.
As I have witnessed lately, maybe the statement from Edmund Burke was not completely correct and there is a hope on the horizon.
About three weeks ago I was filming an event, a concert of classical music, a co-operation franco-norwegian at the Chateau St. Marie nearby Toulouse.
After the concert there was a banquet and I dared to mention what is so dear to me, although I have met the people for the very first time.
What a joy it was to find out that everyone immediately showed a great interest! Even a young disc jockey, owner of the local print shop, a gardener, everyone was ready to discuss the era before the Revolution! Everyone agreed that an enlightened monarch is the best form of government this planet can have and that both Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette were wrongfully accused and even betrayed by some members of the French nobility since they adhered to the new ideas.
In the end, on that warm beautiful evening, in the gardens of chateau, we all raised glasses filled with some of the finest wines in France, produced at nearby chateau and proclaimed "Vive le Roi!" and "Vive la Reine!"
:king: :queen: :angel11:


Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:28 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
What a nice evening! :angel10:
Just be careful my dear, I don't think anyone would be truly happy with the return of monarchy and the tyranny. Usually we are very careless while showing our support to that system.

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Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:35 pm
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Very Passionately put Ivan :angel8: and we understand some of that: However: Marija you are absolutely correct in the urging for caution...... yet so diplomatic in the rendering of it. 8)


Welcome Ivan.

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Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:39 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Why this sudden denial?
What I was referring to was not tyrannic rulers of the medieval times.
Enlightened monarchy such as he last king and queen of France, is without a doubt the best form of government this planet can ever have.

Think about it, one enlightened monarch can do more for his/her country and people than a million politicians!
Undivided responsibility, true patriotism that does not depend on personal profit, but love of the country, chivalry, true honour, those are the virtues that do not exist today!
If a politician brings his/her country into a disaster, can he be tried and lose his/her head? No, he/she will just not be voted for the next time (maybe) and enjoy a generous pension.
In the worse case, if he/she comes from a poorer part of the world, he/she can be put to jail and still enjoy a life that very well taken care of.

I have been a royalist my whole life and am glad that the royalist movement in France is on the rise.
The danger lies in letting the system remain in its present form and that goes for any country.


Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:03 pm
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
Yes, you make some very interesting points. Great Britain (and Australia, on a ceremonial level) as a constitutional monarchy has worked very well! Perhaps the monarch does not have a large say in day to day government, but they are an important figure head and a part of history to be proud of. Queen Elizabeth II has done a very good job, considering how the Empire has shrunk so much during her reign!

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Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:01 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
cineffect wrote:
Enlightened monarchy such as he last king and queen of France, is without a doubt the best form of government this planet can ever have.

I am against the monarchy but if we talk about modern monarchy, things are slightly different. Yet I am not for giving the whole power to the one man. Not the mention the system of dynasty – after having one god monarch, you usually have two bad after him.
This is a complicated subject, personally I believe in democracy.

Was Louis XVI really enlightened monarch? What brings him in that category besides living in that period? I know that other enlightened monarchs can be called that way not only because their personality but because many reforms they did in order to bring close the monarchy to modern times.

cineffect wrote:
Undivided responsibility, true patriotism that does not depend on personal profit, but love of the country, chivalry, true honour, those are the virtues that do not exist today!

…and never existed. Those are unfortunately just ideals. :(

cineffect wrote:
I have been a royalist my whole life and am glad that the royalist movement in France is on the rise.
The danger lies in letting the system remain in its present form and that goes for any country.

That is fine, maybe that is good for France.
I am for that- Be careful what you wish for, maybe it will come true. :idea:

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Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:24 am
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
you so beat me to that. :angel11:
Cinniefect, How could anyone be sure the Monarch was "enlightend" and since the Monarchy is passed down, history proves that desendants of the greatest Monarchs are not necessarily so themselves. Democracy is the best, because there are checks and balances to easily remove an ineffective "mistake" without having to resort to bloody revolutions. Countries that have a constitutional monarchy, that is good to preserve history does bring national pride. The founders of the United States constitution were very good and enlightend men, they wanted to make sure the mistakes of the past were never repeated, such as a government of religious oppression, or tyranny by someone who was not capable of making good decisions...... democracy is the best because It elevates the life of the average person. :angel11:

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Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:48 pm
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
It seems to me that those of you that replied to my statement are only interested in monarchy artificially, in the fashion, architecture, perfume and leisure of the era.
None of you have really grasped what really happened with the Revolution.
Have you not read the statement made by Edmund Burke properly? You really believe what we have now is ideal?
Common sense has been superseded by political correctness, how silly is that? (Thank God, I find that in France it is still mostly the other way around)

Let me start about democracy. Do you really think all people are equal? Equality is a very precarious term, since not all people are born of equal intelligence.
Equality of opportunity is another matter. In the past, even though we had a class system (which still exist, unfortunately based only on money, which is far worse than the one based on position in society) monarchs would pick talented people even from the poor and gave them chance to excel and make a good living. Often a living much better than nowadays, just think about the painters or musicians. If someone was truly talented they would be invited to Versailles and get a royal salary, no matter what class they came from. Singers, dancers, scientists, painters, architects, musicians, composers, designers, craftsmen and even cooks! The other was to get ahead in society was to do something for the country, or save a monarch's life. Knighthood, property, titles were given for valour and chivalry even if the people came from low ranks of society and they did not have to pay a property tax, inheritance tax or any other fees for it. Show me one politician that nowadays supports arts from his own pocket and even if he did, he would not be allowed to, tied by some silly laws!

Intelligent and talented people nowadays have to go through ridiculous TV reality shows, competitions, multiple bureaucratic institutions to make even a small step towards recognition, whereas mediocrity is hailed and promoted. Why? Because the lower classes, the masses decide nowadays what is quality and what not!
Why in no corporation in the world would they allow all employees to vote the board of directors? Simply because the cleaning personnel, for example, would have no idea about the finances or operations of the company! Why then in the most important of all "corporations" the country itself all people are allowed to vote? Why isn't there at least an intelligence test, to show how much a person understands of politics of the country before he/she is allowed to vote!

Elle, you are mentioning United States as a fine example of democracy? Where people vote the president based on what shoes he wears or how well his wife is dressed? Where big corporations can lobby to "lay grounds" to new laws suitable to them no matter how detrimental they can be to the country? Yes, money is the only power in the world nowadays and the only means of getting respect too. You talk about religious oppression, well does it not work just in the opposite way in USA where so called "religious values" dictates many issues in the politics, whereas here in Europe the total separation from religion has created that kind of freedom that has no respect for anything to the extend where Jesus can be used even in porn movies and God ridiculed? Why in this wonderful era of religious freedom 99% of the symbols on t-shirts of young people are evil? Try to put on a t-shirt with "I love angels" and you will be ridiculed, put one with "Satan's child" and everyone will say "cool".
300 years ago children had respect for parents, as parents for their children, husband for wife and wife for husband. Discipline is not a bad thing I feel very happy that I was brought up in the "old fashioned" ways.

The civilization on this planet has culminated at least spiritually just before the French Revolution. World is now more divided than ever and only a form of enlightened monarchy can unify it again. Think about it, in the past we have had imperfect, fast aging, more ill, more vulnerable bodies, often tortured by diseases or injustice, yet in our hearts we were stronger, more spiritual, believing strongly in our ideals. Nowadays, we have perfect bodies, stronger, healthier, often artificially prolonging their youth, but inside we are rotten, weaker, less spiritual and believing in very little if anything.

Last, but not least, how many of you would be willing to die for any politician in your country and how many politicians would be willing to offer their head, knowing they have done their country wrong? It would not be possible anyway, since nowadays it is never a single person that decides about a fate, but a group, call it congress or parliament or what you will. It is easier to make bad decision in a divided responsibility, because the punishment for it is divided too.
:idea:


Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:57 pm
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Post Re: Thank you friends! Merci mes amis!
cineffect wrote:
It seems to me that those of you that replied to my statement are only interested in monarchy artificially, in the fashion, architecture, perfume and leisure of the era.

…so we are very grateful you joined to help us. I love to learn! :book:

cineffect wrote:
Let me start about democracy. Do you really think all people are equal? Equality is a very precarious term, since not all people are born of equal intelligence.
Equality of opportunity is another matter. In the past, even though we had a class system (which still exist, unfortunately based only on money, which is far worse than the one based on position in society)

Equality does not exist because we are all born in different families, with different status but we all should have an equal chance to success.
The position in the society was based on the fact where you noble or not. Noble people didn’t pay taxes, poor people did. You couldn’t go very far from your background.

cineffect wrote:
The civilization on this planet has culminated at least spiritually just before the French Revolution. World is now more divided than ever and only a form of enlightened monarchy can unify it again. Think about it, in the past we have had imperfect, fast aging, more ill, more vulnerable bodies, often tortured by diseases or injustice, yet in our hearts we were stronger, more spiritual, believing strongly in our ideals. Nowadays, we have perfect bodies, stronger, healthier, often artificially prolonging their youth, but inside we are rotten, weaker, less spiritual and believing in very little if anything.

Now we can idealize the monarchy in the past times since those times are over. People wouldn’t fight that hard against that system if they found it good for them.
Ideals (terms of modesty, virtue…) didn’t gave the monarchy itself but the church that was always standing next to it. And those ideals didn’t existed! It is as if we say that women are independent now. Maybe in the show Sex and the city, but not in the real homes. How many monarchs were fighting with their fathers, brothers over the power? Court was all in decadence not in the virtue. I agree that people were more spiritual. People were dying for their faith since the monarch decided in what they had to believe. At least now we are more tolerant.
I will be honest; I want the return of monarchy if you make me a court member. Horrible, I know :evil: . Now, as a regular citizen, I want to live in a democracy.

This fact is the most important for me – over the years, people changed the system of Monarchy. Those people were our ancestors, and they obviously were not pleased with that system. Now, there are not many people who want it back. There are many bad things in the 21st century but we can’t deny the improvements, in the societies, that have happened after the weakening of the church and after the fall of old systems of politics.
I think we should work on the improvement of the masses so their choice could be the same as ours, so all politicians could be enlightened!:wink: :angel5:
Elle wrote:
Democracy is the best, because there are checks and balances to easily remove an ineffective "mistake" without having to resort to bloody revolutions.

:angel8:

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Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:04 am
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