Marie Antoinette Online Forum
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/

Catherine Hyde, Marquise de Gouvion Broglie Scolari
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=449
Page 1 of 3

Author:  jack rogers [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Catherine Hyde, Marquise de Gouvion Broglie Scolari

Hyde "edited" the memoires of the Princesse de Lamballe, which were published at least twice in the 19th C (or once, and then, again, in 1901). I would like to know if there is any biographical material on Hyde (same name as Earl of Clarendon and, hence, Queens Mary and Anne); were they related? What is the Gouvion Broglie line? Was Hyde related to Mme de Stael (daughter?)? I would be most grateful to hear from anyone having information on this subject. Thanks

Author:  Therese [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

Welcome, Jack! My information about Catherine Hyde is that Madame de Lamballe "found" her at a convent school in Paris and that she was an orphan. She may have been someone's love child, as so many "orphans" turned out to be. Madame de Lamballe adopted her and guided her in becoming a Catholic. Catherine was a linguist and so assisted Madame de Lamballe in her correspondence, thereby having access to her papers. She was very witty and could mimic lower class accents and often went about the streets in disguise to gain information for the royal family, so she claims. I have been wondering whether the Broglie she married had any connection to the Duc de Broglie who was Madame de Stael's son-in-law but have not discovered that yet. I will dig around some.

Let me know if you find anything out! :wink:

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

I didn't know that thank you Therese! :D
Ah...this good Lamballe! :wink:

Author:  Therese [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yes, Lamballe was good. Catherine loved her like a daughter and was shattered by her brutal death. Catherine was also close to Madame Elisabeth. She loved the queen and described her as having "heavenly blue eyes."

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: 

Heavenly blue eyes... it is so beautiful !

Author:  jack rogers [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:05 pm ]
Post subject: 

Therese: Thank you for your rapid and helpful reply> I wonder where you got the information about her you have included in your notes. I hav e the Lamballe "memoires" (1901 edition) and in her interpolations she
gives some information about the way she and Lamballe and the queen met (a singing master was the axis mundi--he raved about her voice) but I have not yet obtained any biographical information about her other than what is in the Memoires. She wrote at least two more books (most think the wrote Lambale's memoires though she says she only edited them: the voice is exactly the same), but it is hard to find biographical reference to her in third parties. The deStael/Broglie connection is probably correct, though what it is I have yet to find out. She certainly was daredevil: 4 languages, traveled all over Europe incognito, and married a Marquis. Not bad for a little convent girl (with, of course, a voice)!

I hope I/we will learn more.

Author:  Therese [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 

I got it all from the same Memoirs, Jack. Otherwise, there is not much. There is a more recent edition available from Amazon.com.

Author:  Therese [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Catherine is a minor character in the novel Trianon by Elena Maria Vidal. The quote in the front is from her, as a Marquise.

Author:  Therese [ Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:47 am ]
Post subject: 

A link with more information about Catherine Hyde. I had heard she was an orphan but here is something about her alleged parentage. Very mysterious; I wonder who she really was....


http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0013-8266(189507)10%3A39%3C588%3ASMOTRF%3E2.0.CO%3B2-9

Author:  Therese [ Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:20 am ]
Post subject: 

I don't think the above link works, but I found out more. Catherine Hyde claimed to be descended from one of the Clarendon Hydes by way of a "private marriage" with a "Polish lady" which probably means that she was a indeed illegitimate. There is no record of the Hyde gentleman she names as her father being an ambassador to Poland, as she claimed. She claimed that her Polish mother left her in England and went back to Poland. Catherine ended up in a French convent school. Her edited "memoirs" of Madame de Lamballe were published in the 1820's, 30 years after the events, and the original manuscript "disappeared," just when authentic letters of the Princess de Lamballe would have cost a fortune. Catherine died in 1846 with no word but her own to substantiate that her Memoirs are indeed based upon the true recollections of Madame de Lamballe. Wikipedia claims that the "Memoirs" are apocryphal but with Wikipedia anyone can put anything. Still, I would like to know more about the origins of this person and this book, which is widely read as a source of information about the queen. Maybe they are apocryphal, as Pimprenelle has said before....

Author:  jack rogers [ Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Catherine Hyde

Thanks for the information, Therese. Intriguing that she may have been a left-hand Clarendon/Hyde. First earl, whose daughter married James duke of York (later infamous James II) fled abroad at the time of James's accession (1680?) and so could not be pere. I wonder what other Clarendons went/worked abroad...All the rest of your posting seems very reasonable to me, and I share your skepticism as to how much of the Lamballe stuff comes from Lamballe. Hyde story is intriguing, though, isn't it? Hope there is more Hyde & seek.

Author:  Therese [ Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:06 pm ]
Post subject: 

I will google her alleged husband sometime and see what I can find. In some ways, Hyde's book is more like a novel of Lamballe, probably with some genuine anecdotes woven into the text, but not totally reliable.

Author:  jack rogers [ Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

Therese: Thanks for the response re C Hyde. I tried your link (JStor) and got nothing. Also I will have to inquire from an associated library as JStor doesn't recognize non-accredited scholars like myself. I hope for more Hyde & seek.

Author:  Therese [ Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

I am intrigued to discover more....

Author:  Arietta [ Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

jack rogers wrote:
Therese: I tried your link (JStor) and got nothing. Also I will have to inquire from an associated library as JStor doesn't recognize non-accredited scholars like myself. I hope for more Hyde & seek.


JSTOR is a database you'll find primarily in academic libraries.

Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/