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 United States' debt to Louis XVI and his advisors 
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I don't know, Melly. The Americans fought with the Bristish again in 1812 while Napoleon was ruling France. That's all I know.

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Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:18 pm
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Therese wrote:
I don't know, Melly. The Americans fought with the Bristish again in 1812 while Napoleon was ruling France. That's all I know.


Yes, there was the war of 1812 also.........


I was just reading something about after the WOI how the Americans did not deal with France always very well and gave many deals to Britain that could have benefited France......but I was not reading it with an eye to having this conversation a week later.. (In other words I was skimming)....so maybe I have my wars confused?........so now I have to do some research. (which I love) :)

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Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:26 pm
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I sought on Internet initially, and I found that this war cost to Louis XVI 2 billion (in livres)....Yes it is enormous! :wink:
But I will seek in my books to check if the figures are coherent :D

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Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:27 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
I sought on Internet initially, and I found that this war cost to Louis XVI 2 billion (in livres)....


My goodness, this is where my brain freezes up.

Does anyone know how to convert money from that time to it's worth today?....into the Euro or dollar or something we understand better today?

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Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:07 pm
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After estimates (from a site in Internet), 2 billion in livres are equal approximately to 10 billion Euros (thus in dollards too also) :wink:

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Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:18 pm
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melly wrote:
[I was just reading something about after the WOI how the Americans did not deal with France always very well and gave many deals to Britain that could have benefited France


I'm thinking of the XYZ Affair on this one. Charles Cotesworth Pickney, one of the American delegates, was so angry with events that he made his famous quote. XYZ refers to the French officials that the Americans met, an attempt of keeping identities out of the press. Quite a scandal at the time.

Speaking of raising money for war, Napoleon sold the Lousiania territory off to the US and made real estate history on it.


Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:03 pm
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Thank you everyone for the great discussion. I am of the opinion that it was one of the very heavy pieces of straw that helped to help break the camel's back. It was tactical of him to aid the Americans and deal a blow to England--tit for tat regarding territories lost to France--I always figured that might have been one of the main reason's for France's participation.
However, I do think Louis and his advisors were shortsighted when it came to the idea of a monarchy aiding rebels against another monarchy.
The lesson taught by Charles I should have been somewhat fresh in their mind--no? However, the financial aid given to the Americans was secret for a time--or maybe I am wrong. Anyway the average peasant probably was not well informed.
Anyway, I seem to remember reading a bit that Du Barry or Pompadour-had a portrait of Charles I hung where Louis XV would see it as a daily reminder...


Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:12 pm
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Marie-Antoinette was against helping the Americans for the very reason that she thought it was a dangerous precedent to aid rebels against their king. She wrote a kind letter to Charlotte, Queen of England, apologizing.

Both Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette read David Hume's writings about Charles I in order to avoid the same downfall, but to no avail. However, when Louis begged his wife to follow the example of Charles I's queen and take flight, she replied, "I am not Henrietta of France....I will not leave my husband or my adopted country....I will die at your feet with the children in my arms."

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Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:23 pm
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Therese wrote:

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Marie-Antoinette was against helping the Americans for the very reason that she thought it was a dangerous precedent to aid rebels against their king


You are right Therese, Marie-Antoinette did not frankly like all that could block the monarchy and the symbol of the King. But, however, the possibility of a weakening of England in Europe and of an armed victory for France did not displease to her... :D

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Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:29 pm
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Wow, I did not know she wrote to Queen Charlotte. I admire M-A's integrity. I have also read that Henrietta did not lead a very happy life in exile...


Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:45 pm
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Yolande wrote:
It was tactical of him to aid the Americans and deal a blow to England--tit for tat regarding territories lost to France--I always figured that might have been one of the main reason's for France's participation.


Yes, this is also my feeling, that undermining England was the number one reason Louis helped bankroll the WOI, if successful he was counting on many other things to fall into place. But it did not work out for him, sadly most tactical maneuvers are seldom little more than advisement, consideration and than rolling the dice.

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Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:07 am
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In the Musée Carnavalet there is a contemorary statuette depicting Louis XVI handing over to Benjamin Franklin the document establishing America's independance. On the same statuette I remember that there was the inscription "liberté des terres" and on the other side "liberté des mers" or something very similar. This means freedom of land and sea, and the latter was so important to France and a major factor motivating France's decision to go to war. England had a stranglehold on international trade through its domination of the seas. This new world opening up with all its potential for trade meant that a country like France had to take necessary measures to secure free passage for its ships for the future.

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Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:56 pm
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Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:56 pm
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Bravo Elizabeth....hey that proves I wasn't lying about that!! Phew!

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Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:08 pm
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French kingdom gave more than once a great sum of money to americans to help them against their rivals-England.. But depts of france existed since death of the Sun King.. He left the countrey in depts cause of his wars againsts Austria and other rivals.. War always cost the most.. And Versaille TOO.. :!:

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Mon May 14, 2007 8:46 pm
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