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Visit at the Conciergerie
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=505
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Author:  standingonthetop [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:38 pm ]
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Pimprenelle wrote:
Instead of this life she deserved, she had to experience grief and sorrows and pains and tortures and humilations. This I deeply feel. And I think it is normal. We never feel too much compassion.

Sorry, but I am not fascinated by Marie Antoinette's refine clothes and perfumes only.


You don't have to be so agressive Pimprenelle ! :? It's just a question of opinion.
Marie-Antoinette belongs to everybody. She is not yours only. So let me believe that my opinion isn't worst or better than yours.
So, if you want to believe that she was a poor little woman without strength, it is your choice, but iI don't subscribe to this point of view. Even she was, while her last days, incacereted, or if she suffered, she was almost THE queen of France, whith her great temper, and with great ressources. She kept courage and hopes till the end ! What a great women !
If we feel too much compassion, I think we shall loose the real Marie-Antoinette !

Author:  melly [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:13 pm ]
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standingonthetop wrote:
Pimprenelle wrote:
Instead of this life she deserved, she had to experience grief and sorrows and pains and tortures and humilations. This I deeply feel. And I think it is normal. We never feel too much compassion.

Sorry, but I am not fascinated by Marie Antoinette's refine clothes and perfumes only.


You don't have to be so agressive Pimprenelle ! :? It's just a question of opinion.
Marie-Antoinette belongs to everybody. She is not yours only. So let me believe that my opinion isn't worst or better than yours.
So, if you want to believe that she was a poor little woman without strength, it is your choice, but iI don't subscribe to this point of view. Even she was, while her last days, incacereted, or if she suffered, she was almost THE queen of France, whith her great temper, and with great ressources. She kept courage and hopes till the end ! What a great women !
If we feel too much compassion, I think we shall loose the real Marie-Antoinette !


Certainly you are not speaking about the same Pimprenelle we have posting here! Anyone who could say Pimprenelle sees the Queen as some 'poor little woman' obviously has not done any real reading of this board.

If you feel a person can feel 'too much compassion" tell me what do you measure "too much" by? Is it a foot, a mile, a week, the ammount of blood, tears or children lost..is there a number, a weight or a cut off date?
Please, I am curious as to how one decides they have spent enough compassion on someone else?

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:40 pm ]
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Thank you, dear melly.

Standingonthetop,
Quote:
So, if you want to believe that she was a poor little woman without strength, it is your choice

did I ever say so ? I deeply admire Marie Antoinette's strength and courage... and I admire it especially because she was treated like a dog by the revolution, and never lost her pride and bravery.

I assume that you should experience compassion, dear... This feeling is not what you think it is.

Author:  standingonthetop [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:02 pm ]
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You have your own vision of the queen, and it's not the only one or the better one.
And if i can fell compassion for her, I know she wouldn't let us crying about her for years ! So, i remember her as an example of bravery. However...

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:12 pm ]
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Quote:
And if i can fell compassion for her, I know she wouldn't let us crying about her for years !

So, if you know it... you must have a special connection with her ! :roll:

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:00 pm ]
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Standingonthetop I do not understand why the compassion would make it possible to better understand a person... all that you say remains subjective... it is your opinion of course, but it is not a truth. :wink:
For me Marie-Antoinette was just not a ravaged and attacked woman... the revolution lasted 4 years of her life... she lived 38 years... the compassion thus remains a small part of her. :D

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:52 pm ]
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That's exactely what he says, Chou... Standingonthepoint thinks that I feel too much compassion for Marie Antoinette, for I am afraid that visiting the conciergerie would make me cry. He believes that, being a strong person, Marie Antoinette wouldn't want us to cry for her.

I don't agree with him. Having read so many letters written by Marie Antoinette, I think she needed people's compassion... and I don't see what's wrong with that ? :shock: And I don't see how needing people's compassion would make her less proud, less strong, less courageous and less queen ?

In my view, compassion is a good thing. It means being able to put oneself into someone else's shoes. Sympathy is even indispensable when trying to understand someone.

That's why I feel a deep joy while walking in Trianon gardens, and I felt sick on the Revolution square and in the Tuileries park. And that's why I am still afraid of visiting the conciergerie.

Nothing to do with the queen's bravery !

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:08 pm ]
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Ah but I perfectly understand you , me either I do not want to visit the Conciergerie for the same reasons... because it will be too dificult to see an inhuman place...and to pay for that...

But Standingonthepoint said :"And if i can fell compassion for her, I know she wouldn't let us crying about her for years !"

I have compassion too for her...But the compassion alone is not enough to know a person and to claim to know what this person would like... For me to say that Marie-Antoinette wouldn't like that one does not visit the Conciergerie does not have any significance...

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:20 pm ]
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I agree with you, Chou... and I think this debate has no meaning indeed ! :lol:

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:29 pm ]
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:wink:

and I do not have only compassion for her: I have also admiration for her, fascination, respect, amusing etc... the compassion is a small part!

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:35 pm ]
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Of course, Chou... I also admire her infinitely... and I feel compassion all together. It's not incompatible. I really don't understand standingonthetop's point, here... :roll:

Let's add that Marie Antoinette was a very sensitive and generous person, who herself so often felt compassion for suffering people.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:40 pm ]
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...ha...you're completely right Pim!... :D

Author:  melly [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:56 pm ]
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Pimprenelle wrote:
I agree with you, Chou... and I think this debate has no meaning indeed ! :lol:



Pimprenelle and Charles....I think from what I have read about the great compassion Marie Antoinette had for others that if she were able to know about your tender feelings, (all of our tender feelings for her) that she would be very moved, very touched by the sincere emotion and not at all offended or dismayed by it.
This of course is my impression of her.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:02 pm ]
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I feel so too, melly... thanks for your kind words... Wouldn't she feel, somewhere in time and space, that we love her so tenderly ?

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:03 pm ]
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I hope so Melly :wink:

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