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 Why exactly was Marie Antoinette hated among the French? 
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Marie-Antoinette was hated by the French not because of anything she said or did. It had nothing to do with how German she still was or if she ever spoke German in France. It had to do with the tidal wave of political propaganda and pornographic pamphlets which deliberately sought to soil her image in the eyes of the French people and present her to them as a foreign enemy.

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:03 pm
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Post other queens
I agree. other queens who had even stronger "foreign" credentials were not hated. Louis XIV's Marie Therese never lost her spanish accent, and Spain in the 17th century was as much the enemy as Austria in the 18th; Marie Adelaide of Savoy was known to correspond with her father and was sympathetic to him during the war; Marie Leczenka had an accent; Louis XVI's mother had an accent and was sympathetic to her Saxon origins. they were not hated.
just being foreign born or speaking german in her youth - especially since she mostly didn't use it in her adult life according to everyone - doesn't explain the hatred. most princesses married into the French royal family were foreign born.


Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:07 pm
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Marie-Antoinette came from Austria, she was Queen of France at the bad time and at the bad place… all it can explain this hatred of the people towards her….A Marie-Lecksinska would also have been hated :?

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:09 pm
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Post Re: other queens
doritmi wrote:
I agree. other queens who had even stronger "foreign" credentials were not hated. Louis XIV's Marie Therese never lost her spanish accent, and Spain in the 17th century was as much the enemy as Austria in the 18th; Marie Adelaide of Savoy was known to correspond with her father and was sympathetic to him during the war; Marie Leczenka had an accent; Louis XVI's mother had an accent and was sympathetic to her Saxon origins. they were not hated.
just being foreign born or speaking german in her youth - especially since she mostly didn't use it in her adult life according to everyone - doesn't explain the hatred. most princesses married into the French royal family were foreign born.


That is all true! And Caroline of Naples who always spoke with a heavy Sicilian accent and spent a lot of money and was VERY frivolous was immensely popular with the French.

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:13 pm
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Does anyone know of a good book on MA's first fifteen years?

I don't know... :cry: I never read any book specificly about these years. However, Antonia Fraser insists on this, and also Hortense Dufour. I am aware that Dufour's bio is far too romanced, but I rememver having read many details about Marie Antoinette's childhood in her book.

As for this Saint Nicolas, for instance ! :wink: Saint Nicolas who saved those children cut into peaces...

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:13 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Marie-Antoinette came from Austria, she was Queen of France at the bad time and at the bad place… all it can explain this hatred of the people towards her….A Marie-Lecksinska would also have been hated :?


That is true. They even eventually hated her daughter Marie-Therese who was very thrifty and French born. It was the times, and the Revolution needed scapegoats.

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:15 pm
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Well Marie Antoinette was unique she didn't conform to the Ideal Image of a Queen, she carved her own path which made her an easy target unfortunately.
Remember in Society Conformity is what they want to see.

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Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:55 am
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For the benefit of La Princesse de Lamballe, here is my translation of the exerpts from MA's correspondence to Fersen:

"....at least we will gain some time thereby, which is all that's needed. What a joy it would be if I could regain sufficient influence to prove to all these plebeians that I was not their dupe!"

"...the French are atrocious from every side!"

"....but for that an external and foreign force is needed, and if you think that the French actually consider things first or that they are capable of following a system, then you do them too much honour, and I assure you that for the sole pleasure of change they will renounce the new order so violently acquired with the same alacrity that they installed it."

Even though the title of this post is admittedly "why the French hated MA" I would add that my question was "why MA disliked the French" (hate beign too strong a word). I do not deny that MA seemed to be disliked because she was a foreigner. My point was that MA in the above correspondence seems to betray an increasingly sharp dislike of the French. I do not blame her for this, after all that had treated her like dirt for so long, but it seems to be something she chooses to share in the later dramatic stages with an understanding ear, that of Fersen, who is quite clear and biting in his own criticism of the French in his correspondence to MA. As for Thérèse's point about Louis XIV's Maria Teresa, Bertière is quite clear in her book on the women of the Sun King that she was never really accepted and was gently made a bit of a laughing stock in the Court, never properly speaking French and maintaining her Spanish maids and cooking. She was never really put forward by Louis XIV as the French Queen in public, even though he never lacked respect for her person. I believe that these Royal "imports", politically tactical as they were, were a problem because of the clear national and cultural differences, even if French as a language was spoken quite widely in the different courts.

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Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:55 am
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I wonder how M.A. felt for the Austrians and her brother near her end... :?


Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:34 am
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I am not the one who mentioned Louis XIV's queen. I mentioned Caroline of Naples, who was a very public figure, especially after she went swimming at Dieppe.

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Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:14 pm
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Thank you so much for the translation, Baron!!

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Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:45 pm
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Post my name is Marie Antoinette
Hello all Marie Antoinette fans!
I have joined this forum to try and gain as much information I can about Marie Antoinette since I'm doing an extensive essay for high school on her. This essay is a huge part of my overall IB grade so anyone's input on Marie Antoinette would be very helpful.

The thesis for my essay has not been made yet but it's along the lines of Marie Antoinette being either a good or bad queen. There are so many different opinions of how she contributed to the French Revolution in a negative way. However, I've also heard that many of the opinions aren't accurate. I want to come up with my own opinion for whether or not she was a "good" or "bad" queen. So any help would be much appreciated. :D


Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:46 am
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Hi mantoinette! Welcome here! :D

I can write it now : Marie-Antoinette was a good Queen..the best queen :wink:
If you want to know the reasons, you can read all the subjects in this forum...you will see the real Marie-Antoinette : the good queen, the good mother, the good wife :D

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Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:36 am
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Baron de batz, you're wrong, Marie-Antoinette didn't dislike the French at all. :?

But you show us the only passage of her letters where she wrote such a things, because she's angry. Put you in her place, she was daily insulted by "her dear French people". Someone else could have wrote more stronger words than her for that you know :? . And, honnestly, what she says in her letters isn't totally wrong. :cry:

Maybe the Revolution period isn't the best one to analyse the feelings of Marie-Antoinette towards the French. There are a lot of others letters, all along her life, where she write nice things about us. :wink:

And even during the Revolution, I remember her taking the defense of the french Nation when her brother, Leopold II, criticize it.

Don't make you wrong ideas with only 2 ou 3 letters. She were really angry when she wrote that, and hey, that's normal, she's humain. :roll:


Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:58 am
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You're right Pénélope!

I think too that Marie-Antoinette liked the french and the France :"Le plus beau royaume d'Europe" as she wrote to her mother in 1770.
And France was the country of Louis-Charles...so she wished the happiness of this country :wink:

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