Marie Antoinette Online Forum

Can anyone help?
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Author:  Vivienne [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Can anyone help?

May I start by thanking "York 74" for posting the "nice article from the Independant" post in January. I found this article extremely interesting.

I was very intrigued by the quote which stated that Evelyne Lever had commented that "in certain portraits of Marie Antoinette, there is even a startling resemblance with Diana ........."

Does anyone in the forum know any more about this. Do you know which portraits she is refering to? I would love to know.

Many thanks for any help
Viv :D

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:03 pm ]
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No, I really don't know... I'm still wondering what Madame Lever meant, for I see nothing in common between Marie-Antoinette and Diana Spencer !

Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:18 pm ]
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I see nothing in common, either, although they are distantly related through Mary Queen of Scots.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:33 pm ]
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Madame Lever once talked about "this deficit (lack) of love they both had and that we (public) would like so much to fulfill...".

Still, I see nothing to compare ! Marie-Antoinette was married aged 14 with a boy she didn't know, she suffered awful pains during revolution and was send to the scaffold after a parody for a trial. She died alone, with great dignity and courage. Like a queen.

Diana Spencer married the man she wanted, was betrayed and betrayed herself, and died in a car accident, with her last lover.

Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:59 pm ]
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Yes, Pimprenelle. Marie-Antoinette tried to make the most of her arranged marriage and cultivate mutual affection with her spouse. She would not leave her husband even to save her life. She found love with her family, focusing on her children.

Poor Diana chased after romance with multiple lovers, until the moment of her tragic death. I feel sorry for Diana, but I completely disagree with Evelyn Lever on this point, as I do with other points in her book. The more I think about it, the comparison is obscene.

As far as looks go....They did both have sapphire eyes, lovely complexions and fair hair, but I think our Antoinette was prettier, with her innocent and spiritual expression.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:46 pm ]
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As far as looks go....They did both have sapphire eyes, lovely complexions and fair hair, but I think our Antoinette was prettier, with her innocent and spiritual expression.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I agree with you, dear Therese, the comparizon is obsene ! However, there's a site claiming Diana was a reincarnation of Antoinette !

Again, we also see a similar likeness of Diana in a realist's portraiture of Marie Antoinette, who also, like Princess Diana, died tragically in Paris ... at the hands of a different kind of "mob" than the paparrazi. Another famous painting is called "Marie Antoinette a la Rose" by Elizabeth Vigee Lebrun where we see the "Rose of Versailles" holding a red rose near her bosom (Diana was nicknamed "The Rose" and now is symbolised by that flower). Marie Antoinette was also nearly the same age as Diana, 37, when she was guillotined by the insane men and women of the French Reign of Terror. Never was there a more pitiful sight until the night Princess Diana was hounded and hunted to her death like an animal in a Parisan tunnel. O, cruel France! How Nostradamus must have grieved to see such ignorance and tragedy!

... especially on this picture they put... oh, my favorite one !


They call it perfect likeness... indeed... Antoinette is a perfect likeness of herself !

Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:00 pm ]
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Oh, now I really feel ill. :roll: :o

Author:  Vivienne [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:47 pm ]
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Thank you for your comments.

I have been hunting for this quote from "Marie Antoinette" by Antonia Fraser - and I have just found it ! (Page 113)

"In 1775, ...... Lady Clermont told Marie Antoinette that she was put in mind of the English beauty, eighteen months younger, Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire; the French Queen professed herself "much flattered"

As Georgiana was herself a member of the Spencer family - I am becoming more and more intrigued by this connection.

Does anyone have any more information about this at all ?


Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:26 pm ]
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Yes, Vivienne. Marie Antoinette was friends with Georgiana and they resembled each other. (Georgiana's mother was the Lady Spencer whom Antoinette accidentally shocked when she used the wrong word for gentleman's knickers.) The Spencers were descended from an illegitimate son of Charles II and his mistress Barbara Villiers. Charles II was the great grand son of Mary Queen of Scots, whose mother was of the House of Lorraine. Marie Antoinette's father was Francis of Lorraine. It is a very distant relationship and there are other ways in which they may be related a bit more closely. Both Louis XVI and Antoinette were descended from the Stuarts. I hope this helps, a little.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:41 pm ]
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She seems to be a very fascinating person... I know nothing about her. Was she a friend of Marie-Antoinette ?

I think that, yes, on this portrait, she looks a bit like our queen...


Don't you think so ?

Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:52 pm ]
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Yes, they were friends, not close, close friends, but they got together whenever Georgiana was in Paris. They had many interests in common and Antoinette liked English people. I believe they met through Lamballe, who had many English friends. I do not know a great deal about the Duchess of Devonshire, except that I think she had an affair with Earl Grey (of the tea fame.) I think Georgiana was in the same circle as the infamous courtesan Grace Elliot, the Scottish beauty who was sympathetic to MA even though Mrs Elliot became Orleans' mistress (after he broke up with Mme de Genlis.) Mrs Elliot tried to help the royalist side in spite of her liaison with Egalite. (There is a movie "The Lady and the Duke" about it.)

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:04 pm ]
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Oh... fascinating, indeed ! As I already told you, dear Therese, French historians tend to be very frencocentrist, so, I'm very glad I met friends on the net from all over the world ! It opens me to other references. I'll try to find documentation about this Georginia, and about Grace Elliott too.

It's true Antoinette liked English people, and she liked foreigners in general, actually. Estherhazy, Fersen... wasn't she a stranger herself, "dans ce pays-ci", after all ? :roll:

Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:16 pm ]
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Yes, Antoinette was a "stranger in a strange land." She liked foreigners in general. Was not her friend the Prince de Ligne a Belgian? (Someone once told me he was a distant relative of hers, but I don't know.)

There is a great deal about Georgiana and Mrs Elliot on the internet; it just does not stay in my mind the way facts about Antoinette do.

Author:  Therese [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:19 pm ]
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Antoinette's sister Carolina in Naples liked English people, too. Carolina was good friends with Lady Hamilton.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:06 am ]
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I was just thinking to Emma... She got to the Tuileries and Antoinette gave her a letter for her beloved sister.

Mercy was a Belgian too, he came from Liege. And Belgium was Austrian Netherlands, then... It's still is for me ! :wink:

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