Marie Antoinette Online
  • FORUM
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:18 am



Reply to topic  [ 154 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
 La princesse de Lamballe 
Author Message
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 1:46 am
Posts: 51
Location: Nevada, USA
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Comte de Provence,

I was raising a point that argues the fairness of looking at both sides of the revolution.. while I am sickened by what happened to MA and others during this period, I am trying to portray a modern day look of how the rich live and how the poor really are. By making an example of one of the bush daughters' it shows how one can develop a "disliking" for someone from a more priveledged life without any real reason to dislike them, except that they are better off than the rest of us. MA faced this same problem during her time. People were more inclined to believe the rumors going around about her because of her superior financial situation.
quote="Comte de Provence"]
Jean-François wrote:
Marija Vera wrote:
When I think about the revolution, I try to see both sides, the subject is very sensitive and I don’t want to be unfair. I try to imagine like that is happening now.
Shortly before the French revolution, France had had over 25 million citizens. Over the 22 million were members of the third estate and many of them had lived in very bad conditions, not because they didn’t work but because the bad weather –cold winters- and crazy taxes- tax on a member of a household, church tax, tax on salt…Aristocrats had lived in wealth only because they were lucky enough to be born in noble families, to own land and live in a favor of the king who could increase their benefits. Differences between the large group of people, who had been working very hard but had lived in poverty, and much smaller group, that had had everything often by doing nothing and had had all political power, were huge. Aristocrats of higher rank coasted the French state about 107 million livara (I don’t know the translation of this custom) each year. People of the third estate had been fighting for their rights many times in history before the French revolution with more or less success. They sow aristocrats as some people, for example, see Paris Hilton today- as shallow, extravagant, egocentric, hypocrite…Imagine that your kids are dying of starvation and many diseases caused by bad conditions, that you are facing to lose your house, suffer in terrible poverty but still have to pay numerous taxes while beautiful carriages are passing buy with beautiful ladies inside, in priceless gowns and with fixed hair to be up to one meter high. That of course leaded to dissatisfaction and rage. People were also affected by the great propaganda and perverse stories connected to their queen.
France was in great debt during the reign of Louis XV. During the reign of Louis XVI, things became even worst and France was facing a financial brake down so changes were necessary. King, influenced by noblemen, refused two proposed financial reforms because they could lead to estate equality and the end of feudalism. In the 1789, when the revolution started, royal family was stroked by the tragedy- son of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette had died. One man, revolutionary, asked them why they were crying for their one son when thousands children had already died in France from starvation.
The revolution was based on good ideas, to make all people equal, to give them the same possibility to success. Among the revolutionary were many intelligent, rational people who deserve deep respect but despite their effort, unfortunately, they couldn’t overrule the angry, bloodthirsty mob. Situation was the same among the aristocrats, many of them were aware of necessary of changes and wanted to cooperate but couldn’t overrule the others, blinded by their greediness and proud, who refused to make even a slightest compromise when the catastrophe might had been avoided.
The French revolution ended so badly because disability of the two sides to make a compromise. That’s the great example of one proverb- The way to the hell is built by the good intentions (Put do pakla poplocan je dobrim namerama) - how good ideas can easily be used in such a bad manner.
The point is that the things are never black or white, but gray. I appeal to all of us who like Marie Antoinette and have negative attitude towards the revolution, to look at the things objectively and avoid unfairness which is so often while talking about this subject, whatever side you are on.

D'accord!!!! Very well said... I often think that the United States is heading down this path of revolution.... The price of gas is high, people are forced to buy gas and not food.... people are losing their houses left and right to mortgage companies... and yet.... the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.... what do you see when you look at the wedding pictures of George Bush's daughter? =) something to think about.


What everyone else see's, a fat spoiled little Texan girl, who thinks she owns the world, why do you ask? :twisted:[/quote]

_________________
Give me my robe, put on my crown; I have Immortal longings in me.


Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:03 am
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 1681
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
baron de batz wrote:
I agree with Marija that change was inevitable. Social pressures on the Royalty to change things were already strong during Louis XV's reign, and Madame la Pompadour considerably helped her lover during his struggle with the parliament of those days. However what I don't agree with is the concept of revolution because it completely replaces one system (the good and the bad) by another and leaves no room for discussion or compromise. Louis XVI tried hard to put forward the very just demands of the 3rd Estate, such as a level and equitable taxation system, and came up against an aristocracy and clergy wholly unprepared to lose their privileges. And then when the noblemen finally rallied Louis XVI, it was too late, the machine had been put into motion and nothing could stop it. Killing a few thousand aristocrats and ransacking the national heritage was not however going to change much, the wound was too deep. The proof is that the poverty was just as bad during the revolution, and Napoleon brought glory but through war and mass slaughter. And then we were back to three royal régîmes within the 19th century! What the revolution did bring about however was a change of perception of what a man or a woman is or perhaps rather should be....Rousseau started that off....born equal and with equal rights. In reality however I don't really think that we are all born equal, because those born into money or status have a natural advantage over the others. We have replaced title by money. And the difference now is the clergy and aristocracy no longer play their traditional and ancestral rôle of benefactors. The State is now the main benefactor, but where the state is deficient, the pauper finds himself more deserted than ever. Obviously no-one starves to death anymore (at least in Europe), that is a major advance. However the poor get poorer and the richer get richer, obviously, because values are centred around money and success. Equality is utopic; otherwise every day would bring its' revolution.


As I had said ideas of the revolution were good and it was important for society to understand that all people deserves the same chance and that nobody should be suppressed so that the small group of people could live in incredible luxury. I don’t know for you but I am for the democracy (even it has many flaws) and wouldn’t change it in my country for anything.
Personally, I blame the mob. Group of bloodthirsty people who wanted revenge. I respect people who wanted changes by rational acts but could that have been done? Yes, during the revolution people were even poorer. Because the revolution had ruined the old tax system and the new revolutionary courts and organization required money.

I guess if I were the poor peasant I would feel the same as they did and would find a thousand reasons to justify the revolution as if I were a rich nobleman I would try to justify the ancient regime.

People are not equal but that doesn’t mean that today we don’t have many benefits from the democracy and the “revolutionary” ideals.

_________________
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. St. Francis of Assisi


Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:15 am
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 1981
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
I understand being angry about seeing ladies with jewel encrusted shoes while you're too poor to replace your own, how their pets are pampered like children, even though yours are dying and hungry. It's only natural to feel angry. Wanting to change that, and changing the country is one thing. However, raping, murdering and maiming people is another thing. Change is necessary, is raping, and bringing harm to other people necessary?

_________________
"Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown."-William Shakespeare


Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:14 pm
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 1981
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Modern day this is the stuff that infuriates me this is Jennifer Lopez's Baby registry, yes babies need a stroller etc, but luxury items!?


It appears that Jennifer has a heavy hand while she was scanning her baby wish list at the L.A. baby boutique Petit Tresor. Some of the items on her registry include:
$349 cashmere outfit from Baby CZ (one blue and one pink) - Does the color selection give you an idea as to what sexes the twins are?
$225 Moses baskets - I mean you can’t re-enact the old testament without one of these.
$65 Smushy teddy bears with pink or blue ribbons - You can actually get the “smushy” effect by rolling over it with your car a few times. It’d save a bunch of money.
A $3,495 Balmoral black enameled carriage - First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a outrageously priced baby carriage complete with 2 bottle holders, flip down DVD player, 18 point surround sound system, laptop for baby to check their emails, and diamond encrusted dinosaur mobile. Oh, I’m sorry. That’s the deluxe model. This is the cheaper version without all of the extras.
$289 suede play mat - Ever tried to get stains out of suede before? Ever inadvertently got a suede fuzzy piece in your mouth somehow? Just to be clear, babies put their mouths on everything.
$560 jogging stroller for twins - Where in the world are these two planning to find time to jog anywhere? I’d get worn out just putting them in the stroller.
Two Peg Perego strollers (one in mint and one in toffee color) at $429 each - No comment. These aren’t even real color names. These are food names.

_________________
"Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown."-William Shakespeare


Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:14 pm
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:00 pm
Posts: 2161
Location: France
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Jean-Francois, to becompletely honest, im better off than either of the Bush daughters are. Or, maybe the Bush family itself.
All im saying is the wedding photo's show how spoiled she is, and how everyone, in a lower financial situation looks down upon them.
However, I see no comparison Between The Bush family and MA, could you explain further?


Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:14 pm
Profile WWW
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:21 am
Posts: 1545
Location: paris
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Comte de Provance wrote:

Jean-Francois, to becompletely honest, im better off than either of the Bush daughters are. Or, maybe the Bush family itself.


I think we need to meet cher Comte....would you accept a Baron as a "premier écuyer"? :wink:

_________________
"Fidelité et constance, sans espoir de récompense."


Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:15 pm
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 1:46 am
Posts: 51
Location: Nevada, USA
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Mon cher Comte,

My point is that I can understand how the peasantry/middle class could be discouraged by viewing the luxuries of MA/Bush twins. I am not talking of their character... only of their economic situations. :) I can see why the rumors that helped fuel the revolution could so easily be spread when viewing such portraits of the queen and court. aka the bush twins wedding in present day. MA could not be compared to individuals such as the Bush twins. MA wins every time ;) In the end... I think our views are relatively similar.
Comte de Provence wrote:
Jean-Francois, to becompletely honest, im better off than either of the Bush daughters are. Or, maybe the Bush family itself.
All im saying is the wedding photo's show how spoiled she is, and how everyone, in a lower financial situation looks down upon them.
However, I see no comparison Between The Bush family and MA, could you explain further?

_________________
Give me my robe, put on my crown; I have Immortal longings in me.


Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:44 am
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 1681
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Hellou_Librorum wrote:
Wanting to change that, and changing the country is one thing. However, raping, murdering and maiming people is another thing. Change is necessary, is raping, and bringing harm to other people necessary?

I am afraid that almost EVERY war that had happened *and will happen* was very brutal :( . Changes without blood are very rare.
Somebody years ago thought about Marie Antoinette the same as you think about the Bush's daughter. Maybe we would think the same if we were the 18th century peasants.

_________________
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. St. Francis of Assisi


Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:39 am
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:14 am
Posts: 808
Location: Le Petit Trianon, France
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Marija Vera wrote:
Hellou_Librorum wrote:
Wanting to change that, and changing the country is one thing. However, raping, murdering and maiming people is another thing. Change is necessary, is raping, and bringing harm to other people necessary?

I am afraid that almost EVERY war that had happened *and will happen* was very brutal :( . Changes without blood are very rare.
Somebody years ago thought about Marie Antoinette the same as you think about the Bush's daughter. Maybe we would think the same if we were the 18th century peasants.

:o

_________________
“There is nothing new except what has been forgotten.”- Marie Antoinette


Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:55 pm
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 1681
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
I have never felt as the part of the mob, I was always different and that’s why a rather feel as the part of the minority than the part of the huge number of people. If somebody would make a revolution like that now, I don’t think I would’ve escaped the guillotine :o ! *Bush’s daughter obviously wouldn’t!

So we can return to the subject – I truly admire Princess Lamballe for her courage. Do you know any interesting fact about her or can you post some beautiful portrait of her?

_________________
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. St. Francis of Assisi


Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:11 pm
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
She was a lovely creature:

Attachment:
la princesse de lamballe.jpg
la princesse de lamballe.jpg [ 56.49 KiB | Viewed 1671 times ]

Attachment:
lamballe_labille guiard.jpg
lamballe_labille guiard.jpg [ 58.54 KiB | Viewed 1671 times ]

Attachment:
lamballe-miniature.jpg
lamballe-miniature.jpg [ 112.87 KiB | Viewed 1672 times ]

You might want to read "The Secret Memoirs of the Princess Lamballe" edited by her niece Catherine Hyde.

_________________
“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”
- Germaine de Staël


Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:20 am
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Another lovely portrait:
Attachment:
princesse de lamballe_campana.jpg
princesse de lamballe_campana.jpg [ 42.61 KiB | Viewed 1661 times ]

_________________
“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”
- Germaine de Staël


Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:55 am
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 1681
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Thank you for the recommendation.

She is different on almost every portrait so it’s hard to imagine how she actually looked like.
She is so pretty on this one lamballe_labille guiard.jpg.

Do you know what had happened to her body, was she properly buried anywhere?
And how old was she when she was brutally murdered?


I found this one, if it’s her-


Attachments:
Unknown girl believed by some to be the princesse de Lamballe..jpg
Unknown girl believed by some to be the princesse de Lamballe..jpg [ 26.25 KiB | Viewed 1656 times ]

_________________
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. St. Francis of Assisi
Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:50 am
Profile
Prince/Princesse
Prince/Princesse
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:21 am
Posts: 1545
Location: paris
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
What was left of her body was never properly buried. Rumour has it that she ended up in the "cimitière des enfants trouvés" in Paris, and that the bones of the occupants of this cemetery, including her's, were later transferred to the famous Parisian catacombs. So her bones are probably piled up amongst thousands of others in some dank underground passage...how the mighty are fallen...she died at the age of 43, she was exactly the same age as the Duchesse de Polignac.

_________________
"Fidelité et constance, sans espoir de récompense."


Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:39 am
Profile
Royalty
Royalty
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia
Post Re: La princesse de Lamballe
Baron, I heard that Lamballe shared Polignac's birthday - September 8. Marija, whilst searching for information on Lamballe, I found this long and very interesting post on another forum: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=4919.msg%25msg_id%25 Elena Maria Vidal contributes some very interesting facts to the discussion. :book:

_________________
“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”
- Germaine de Staël


Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:18 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 154 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.