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The Revolution and women
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1172
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Author:  Anouk [ Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

I find it ridiculous while women above died an early death (also Marie Antoinette!!), some men lived a long life such as Lafayette, Necker or Sieyès...
I have to tell that I find the revolution horrible on the whole but I regret these women whom only fault was they loved thier housband/lover or wanted to make better their life

Author:  reine [ Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

you are right Anouk :book:

reine :angel6:

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

I think it's interesting because I read a book called the "History of Marriage" the wife still played the same role, but she also taught her children why the revolution was good.

Author:  Anouk [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Fundamentally, the revolution was expedient and imperative, I think. Troubles begun in 1792 1. by the declaring of the war 2. by the war's result, the termination of Constitutionalthe Monarchy!

Author:  Rosalie [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

I've seen these very interesting posts just now and I thank you, Dreamoutloud, for your very interesting observations. Where did you find your information? As I said, I'm very interested in this topic. I'll answer in more detail later, but for now I'll say that I completely agree: to go over traditional gender discrimination is something far more difficult than going over social distinctions, for example. Discrimination always existed, as least from very early times, and I think that the example of the Revolution is very interesting, becuase it shows how radical reforms in other fields could cohexist with a mysoginist attitude.
And yes, the model for a woman during the Revolution was the good mother of citizens; it's by no chance that Revolutionaries took as models Roman heroines (who were usually example of "virtue" and modesty)...but the use of ancient Rome in revolutionary thought would require another topic!
Anyway, I hope I'll be able to write more when I'm less tired! :rainbow:

Author:  Marija Vera [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Rosalie wrote:
Discrimination always existed

And still exists I’m afraid... :?

Author:  Anouk [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Rosalie wrote:
I
And yes, the model for a woman during the Revolution was the good mother of citizens; it's by no chance that Revolutionaries took as models Roman heroines (who were usually example of "virtue" and modesty)...but the use of ancient Rome in revolutionary thought would require another topic!


Good idea... it is very interesting to see how people comit the same fault (and sometimes virtue) again and again :lol: , especially in the time of the french revolution. History of the Ancient Roman Empire is an eternal point of reference.

Author:  dreamoutloud [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Ahhh the Romans. Heh, you are right, that is a whole new topic of discussion.

If you are interested on the subject, there are many, many books out there on the topic of women in the French Revolution. Here are some examples:
The twilight of the goddesses : women and representation in the French revolutionary era / Madelyn Gutwirth
The women of Paris and their French Revolution / Dominique Godineau
Out of the shadows : women and politics in the French Revolution, 1789-95 / Shirley Elson Roessler
Rebel daughters : women and the French Revolution / edited by Sara E. Melzer and Leslie W. Rabine
Women and the limits of citizenship in the French Revolution / Olwen H. Hufton
Women, equality, and the French Revolution / Candice E. Proctor

For information on specific women, many of the leading ladies I mentioned have their own biographies. There are also several books on the general subject of "Women in the French Revolution." Just try to get something written after 1950. Women in the French Revolution seems to have been a favorite topic around the turn of the century. These biographies tend to be rather sentimental, with everyone's primary virtue being as a "gentle wife and mother" or something of the sort. There is a new book just out called Liberty: The Lives of Six Women during the French Revolution. However, I haven't read it, so I can't comment. One book I will recommend is Blood Sisters by Marilyn Yalom. It's the traditional collected biography of women during the Revolution, but instead of picking the most famous ones, she picks some lesser known figures that are really interesting. I remember Mme de la Tour du Pin was in there, as well as a Vendéen female spy, Elisabeth Duplay and Charlotte Robespierre.

Author:  Anouk [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Thank you for this list :) It's a perfect bibliography!
Somebody knows is there any book wherein Marie Antoinette is compared with these women? I'd certainly read such a book.

Author:  dreamoutloud [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Probably your best bet for that is one of the standard "Women of the French Revolution" books. Like I said, there are a whole bunch of them if you have access to a university library. They tend to give biographies of Marie Antoinette, Madame Roland, Charlotte Corday, Germaine de Stael, Theroigne de Mericourt, Lucile Desmoulins, etc. If you want something a little more in-depth and explicitly comparative than just collected biographies, I'd look for a more recent book.

You might also be interested in Lynn Hunt's "The Family in Revolutionary France," which explores Marie Antoinette's image as the archetypal "bad mother" in Revolutionary propaganda.

Author:  Therese [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Excellent suggestions, and quite scholarly! Simon Schama's "Citizens" is good, too.


On the historical fiction front, Catherine Delors' novel "Mistress of the Revolution" offers a great deal of insight into the role of women during those times. It is a novel but based on some thorough research.

Author:  Rosalie [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Thank you very much, Dreamoutloud, for your so detailed bibliography!
I'll treasure it and start looking ofr some books.

I'm also reading Simon Schama's citizen, Therese, and I find it very interesting, also about women!

Author:  Therese [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

Rosalie wrote:
Thank you very much, Dreamoutloud, for your so detailed bibliography!
I'll treasure it and start looking ofr some books.

I'm also reading Simon Schama's citizen, Therese, and I find it very interesting, also about women!


Great! It is one of my favorites!

Author:  ericalauren [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Revolution and women

I would just like to clarify that not all feminists burn bras! In fact, the majority of us wear bras everyday (especially in public!).

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