Marie Antoinette Online Forum

Folktales of the Escape
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Author:  baron de batz [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:37 pm ]
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Going back to the escape to Varennes for a moment, I attended a cocktail party last night given by AXA in their avenue Matignon headquarters in Paris. This is a rather daring building with a listed 18th century mansion annexed to a modern glass construction. The AXA chairman, Henri de Castries, gave a speech to the assembly. He is probably one of France's most influential businessmen, so it delighted me when he started his speech by informing the very international gathering (in English) that the mansion behind his back was supposed to be the building from which the coach left to take Louis XVI and MA to Varennes. He pointed out that this was already a very international enterprise, with a Swede taking an Austrian born Queen and French King to safety!

Well as he was there and what is more had spoken about our dear Queen, I decided to ask him a little question that had been bugging me for a while. In my various biographies I had often seen the name De Castries mentioned as being the Marine Minister of Louis XVI and MA. So I asked him if he was related to that man, and he confirmed he was. So this is the proof that not all the noblemen have fallen from grace in France, because there are few more powerful people in this country than this extraordinary man, whose public speaking is all about energy and improvisation, and remains bright and sparkling, never with notes in his hand!

Sorry friends to have been less assiduous, I have just been away for two weeks, in Norway and last week in a thirteenth century English castle on a training course with one metre thick walls. You should have seen my room, not very large but in the heart of the castle and with little latticed windows and somewhere to sit by the window with my latest MA biography and read into the early hours, overlooking the ancient courtyard with its old clock striking the hours! But I'm back and I have some new things to say, not all of them meet general agreement here, but that's the point of a forum isn't it? If the castel interests you, its called lumley castle, there's a website, just tap into google.

Author:  Gabrielle de Polastron [ Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Marie Antoinette House

I just posted a rather long post au sujet de the Marie Antoinette House in Edgecomb, Maine and the legends associated of the Maine Coon Cat in the Marie Antoinette forum.

Perhaps I should have entered that all in here? :?

Author:  Jean-Fran├žois [ Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:36 am ]
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:D lol .. it could always be moved over Gabrielle.. interested in reading what was said.

Author:  Gabrielle de Polastron [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:55 pm ]
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Well, here is the link, Jean Francois. :) ... .php?t=914

Author:  Jean-Fran├žois [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:35 am ]
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thank you gabrielle.. that was truly an enchanting story... i had not heard of the MA house in maine... bravo for pointing it out!

Author:  baron de batz [ Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Folktales of the Escape

It is time, the King has already gone ahead with the children. So quiet, I feel like the only sound is the beating of my heart! I see through the window giving on to the interior courtyard of the palace the moon cross the heavy clouds, but tomorrow it should be fine.. and hot. How strange I must look in this disguise! What would my dear mother have thought of all this! Oh maman....! I shall see HIM and he will conduct us the first part of the journey. They await me....a courtyard to cross and the first part is done! Courage! Lord watch down on us. Protect my children! I lift the latch, softly...

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Therese wrote:

Here is where we discussed it - somehow it got under the category of Louis-Charles. The "Dark Countess" or "Dunkelgrafin" legend claims that Marie-Therese-Charlotte was raped and impregnated in prison by a guard and thereafter exchanged with the "illegitimate daughter" of Louis XVI :!: who took her place during the restoration and became the grumpy Duchesse d'Angouleme. :roll: The "REAL" Madame Royale lived in Germany as a prisoner of the masons.

My problems with this theory:

1. Louis XVI did not have an illegitimate daughter. Most scholars concur on that point.

2. There were too many people who knew little Madame Royale and who NEVER questioned that she and the Duchesse d'Angouleme were not one and the same person. Louis XVIII was perfectly capable of such trickery, but Artois, Angouleme and Berry were awful at keeping secrets, and such conniving was beyond them. Pauline de Bearn and her mother the former royal governess Madame de Tourzel had been close to Marie-Therese-Charlotte before and after the revolution. They would have known if an imposter had been put in their princess' place. There are other persons of high integrity, such as one of Madame Elisabeth's ladies Madame de Serent, who later waited upon the Duchesse d'Angouleme, not to mention numerous lesser retainers, who acknowledged her to be Madame Royale. Louis XVIII did not have enough money to buy the secrecy of so many people if a hoax was being perpetrated.

Thank you Therese!
I too have a problem with this theory, from a psychological point of view, if she was behaving differently, I believe anyone would act differently after the trauma she faced.
She was a young girl at the time, even though headstrong, that is pain no one should ever feel. if she had been switched it would have been noticeable, by anyone. Features couldnt carry down like that, even if it were her child. If there was a double, she wouldnt behave like Madame Royale at all.
Trauma, and depression show signs of aging, and stress, until you receive some type of help.

I hop all of this makes a bit of sense!

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