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Revolution Question
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=336
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Author:  Brigette [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Revolution Question

First, if I offend anyone, tell me to go to grass, as my grandmother would say. :), but I have a somewhat controversial question.

As an American, I am a proponent of democracy and power to the people, and of revolution if it's needed, but the American Revolution was soldier against soldier. Americans never took over Great Britain, burst into the royal palace, and cut off the King's head!! Benjamin Franklin who knew the Queen was horrified by the events he lived through. This is not to suggest that America has done everything right (not going into our current state of affairs as it has nothing to do with MA), but to to examine that revolutions, such as the Glorious Revolution of the British, can take place without a lot of bloodshed . On to my question: What made the French Revolution so incredibly violent? So violent that in fact it turned against the very people who started it?

I am particularly interested in the opinions of those who are French. It's fascinating if horrifying from a standpoint of history: how on earth did the Terror happen? I suppose it is the negative in the human nature, but the strangling of children seems above and beyond what is human. Any thoughts? I am genuinely interested in the political and cultural phenonmenon that make this possible at the time.

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 

There is no offence, dear. I am no French, I am a Belgian, and have so been raised in the French culture, with French values. That means that I grew up learning that Robespierre was a wonderful guy and the revolution an historical necessity.

But, now, I am a big girl !

My country is a constitutional monarchy. However, I am no royalist. I firmly believe in the equality of manhood and that election is a good thing. Let's say... as long as they are not trafficated !

Nevertheless, I love Marie-Antoinette, so strongly that her sufferings became mine. I don't share her values, but I deeply understand them. I think she acted the only way that seemed just to her.

Now, about the French revolution, I lost all the illusions of my childhood. Robespierre, Danton, Mirabeau, La Fayette, Saint Just... Nothing but ambitious guys having their hidden agenda. The problem is : to serve their own interests, they sacrified thousands of people, and threw their own country into terror, famine, bloodshed and despair.

No human ideal should allow such a catastrophe ! No ideal shout allow you to spread your brothers' blood. However, they did... and our European children still learn that it was for the good of liberty and equality ! In my view, this is legitimazing terrorism !

Author:  Aurora [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 

My biggest applause for you, Pimprenelle! What a speech!
And sadly so true with these thoughts about revolution which always betrays its promises...

Author:  Therese [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:02 pm ]
Post subject: 

Bravo!

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

Thank you, girls, you are sweet, as usually... I was afraid I was too harsh. But it's exactly how I feel... I have the feeling they lied to me since I've been born !

And they still do... French history is still taught this way !

Author:  Therese [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lol! So is American history.....

Author:  CrY [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

Oh oh oh oh what interesting subject!
First of all, my compliments to Primpenelle, she is always direct with her answers and very clear! :lol:

So.. we talk of "terror", "violence" :x carachteristic that differs the two big revolutions.. American and french revolution.
Why so differents if they had the same pourpose? It's very difficult to answer also because I am not an historian!! ehehe :roll: :?:

I agree with Primpenelle as regards the revolutionaries that didn't do what they had thought before. Reading the biographies of some of them.. (Robespierre, Tallien, Saint Just) I have noticed that they changed idea very quickly!( Robespierre was against the torture and capital death.. after he changed idea so quickly!) and not only this.


I think also that in America there has not been a direct contact with the english monarchy, perhaps this has influenced.. :roll:

If I have other ideas I will write theme here!
(I was going to do some "recherche"!!!! :lol: )
BYE! :shock:

Author:  Jean-François [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:31 pm ]
Post subject: 

Very interesting Cry... If the English monarchy had been within the reach of the americans hands things could have been very different... also the british monarchy was a constitutional monarchy at this time... although everything was done in the kings name, parliament had alot to do with it.. king james 1st of england did however hold a little more power than the current day constitutional monarchies hold. So who knows :)

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:28 am ]
Post subject: 

Therese wrote:
Lol! So is American history.....

:lol: That is exactly what I thought when I read Pimpernelle's post!

IMO the French Revoltion really was an atrocity (the American Revolution was unnecessary as well; the Americans expected some poor Londener to pay their taxes :roll: )
I am a major liberal though I believe in equality , individual rights, etc...but I think anything founded on violence is doomed to fail.

The French Revolution reminds me of Nazi Germany, The Spanish Inquisition, etc I mean afterall had Nazi Germany won WWII wouldn't we be learning about how Adolf Hilter was a great hero?

Author:  Therese [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:34 am ]
Post subject: 

You are so right, Rudy, in comparing the French Revolution to the Nazis, since all of modern totalitarianism had its roots in the French Revolution.

Author:  CrY [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

Oh I don't think it's similar to nazi's persecution!! perhaps only in the persecutions of the noblemen and noblewomen but we know that the nazism was not only this! there was a concept of untolerance of the jewish that were inferiors to the white race. French revolution was , yes, a persecution but not for these reasons.. no?
The revolution was as "Saturne", he has eaten his sons. But not for racial reasons. it etablished a dictatorship yes.

Author:  Therese [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

Actually, more peasants were killed during the French Revolution than nobles. Many peasants were against the tyrannies of so-called Liberty, Equality and Fraternity and wanted the king to come back. The revolts against the Revolution in the Vendee and Lyon are perfect examples. Thousands of poor people died, women raped and children tortured to death by the "boys in blue." But Robespierre thought France was becoming overpopulated anyway, especially with ignorant, superstitious peasants.

The Nazis killed anybody who disagreed with them or who they considered undesirable, not only Jews. They executed many Catholic priests and many Poles and Russians also died because of the Nazis. The point is, the revolutionary government under Robespierre made the State into a god so and anyone considered an enemy of the State was done away with. The Nazis, the Soviets and all the modern Communist and totalitarian regimes have done the same thing. The French Revolution was the blueprint for modern tyranny and mass murder.

This is why it is so important for the politically correct version of history that Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette continue to be demonized as foolish, wanton and decadent rulers whose mistakes led to so many deaths. Marie-Antoinette must be shown as a spendthrift slut in order to justify what was done to her and her family.

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Well Said Therese! 8)

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:54 am ]
Post subject: 

For those who read French, I hardly recommend Pierre Belaiche-Daninos's conclusion of his book "Les 76 jours de Marie-Antoinette à la conciergerie, tome 1".

Author:  CrY [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Pimprenelle wrote:
For those who read French, I hardly recommend Pierre Belaiche-Daninos's conclusion of his book "Les 76 jours de Marie-Antoinette à la conciergerie, tome 1".


It is difficult to read for an italian?

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