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the french revolution
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52
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Author:  Christophe [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:09 pm ]
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I have to agree with you Therese, much of what we are taught as "history" is merely propaganda. I see this quite a bit in the USA. In school I was taught that America defeated the British virtually single-handedly. The French role in the American Revolution is considerably down-played and sometimes overlooked altogether. If you look at American history textbooks you will find mention of Lafayette and Ben Franklin's diplomatic efforts at Versailles, but not a word about the French navy, or the money, cannon, gunpowder, ships, uniforms, and troops provided by Louis XVI to the American insurgents.
Without this considerable aid from France, America could never have prevailed against the British. In my opinion the USA owes it's existence to France, a debt that was finally repaid in WWII (although most Americans don't see it this way).

Author:  Therese [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:22 pm ]
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I agree, Christophe. America owes its existence to King Louis XVI.

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:08 am ]
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yeah the American History you're taught is such a lie. Although two of my high school history teachers weren't scared to be honest. Something I loved about them.

Author:  severina [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 pm ]
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i remember being taught english history only in school (there's got to be some conspiracy theory there!) and didn't find out about william wallace til braveheart came out which was completely inaccurate as it was.

its amazing how children's minds are controlled from such an early age with regards to historical facts. its rather scary to be honest!

Author:  Therese [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:45 pm ]
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Most schools, and the history that is taught in them, are a means of social control. Every totalitarian regime has learned that if the history can be changed, then the people's perception of reality will be altered.

Even the English did that to the Scots and the Irish in the Middle ages and later, by forbidding them their ancient tradtions, such as the pipes, etc.

Author:  severina [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:56 pm ]
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absolutely therese and that's why the english still say the scots have a chip on their shoulder! i wonder why?(!!!!!)

Author:  Therese [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:59 pm ]
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severina wrote:
absolutely therese and that's why the english still say the scots have a chip on their shoulder! i wonder why?(!!!!!)


Well, dear, sometimes I think having a chip on your shoulder is part of being Celtic. :wink:

Author:  Byron [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:35 am ]
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The French Revolution was a catastrophe. An earlier post remarked on the American propensity for putting a gloss on history. In truth, it's the French -- and everyone else who romanticizes The Revolution -- who are most guilty of convenient forgetting. It's true that the founding Fathers were slave owners; but it's also true that the Jacobins were the founders of the modern police state -- the sham trials; the execution of political opponents; the death squads. Two other notable innovations of the Paris Commune (which was controlled by the Jacobin membership): terrorism (a "terroriste" being one who supports the Reign of Terror as a means of defending the revolution from the "enemy within") and Communism. The man who coined the word "Communism" did so in a conversation with the disciples of Babeuf, a Commune member in the mid 90's. Not only did Babeuf support the September Massacres (in which Lamballe was dismembered, decapitated, sexually mutilated, and her remains paraded through the streets), but he favored a new, more comprehensive massacre, the logic being that the first hadn't achieved its aim; the monarchy had simply been replaced by the bourgeoisie. I don't know what his plans were for whoever would replace the bourgeoisie, but presumably they would've met the same fate, and so on, ad infinitum.

Author:  Therese [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:01 pm ]
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Excellent point! Thank you!!

Author:  Byron [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:16 pm ]
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Thank you, Therese! One thing I find especially ironic is that "Bastille Day" has now become the French national holiday. In fact, it was the day on which the world's first police state armed itself. Immediately afterwards, the Commune sealed off the city and began arresting anyone suspected of harboring Royalist sympathies (along with anyone they simply didn't like). Not only that, but the day established two very ominous precedents -- decapitation along with the morbid display of the heads, and the targetting of women with violence (the mob seized a woman who happened to be in the vicinity and attempted to set her on fire).

Author:  Therese [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:22 pm ]
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I agree. The brutal attacks on woman (and small children) came to characterize the revolution.

Author:  severina [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:09 pm ]
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Therese wrote:
I agree. The brutal attacks on woman (and small children) came to characterize the revolution.


this is why i have no sympathy for the revolutionaries! :roll: :x

byron, i've enjoyed reading your points!

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:26 pm ]
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Indeed ! Byron's posts are very interesting ! Fascinating !

Author:  Byron [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:49 pm ]
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Thank you Severina and Pimprenelle! I picked up an interest in the French Revolution a few months ago, when I was researching the origins of the term "left-wing" (it refers to the seating arrangements in the Assembly). It's truly amazing how all the threads of modern history seem to converge there in one way or another.

Here's another fascinating point about the Communism connection: modern day proponents of "revolutionary politics" would have you believe that their red flag represents "the blood of the angry workers". In fact, when the red flag first appeared above the door of the Jacobin club (sometime around 1792), it was well known to the French public -- as a pirate flag. More specifically, it was a flag of the Buccaneers (aka: the pirates of the Caribbean). These were pirates of French origin with an egalitarian bent -- their Captains were elected, they would divide the spoils in proportionate shares, they had a rudimentary pension system, and they'd release any slaves they happened to capture (usually). It was a sort of brotherhood. Despite this, in their latter years (early 1700s) they became notorious as the most sadistic of all the pirates.

When the Buccaneers attacked, first they'd run up the black flag as a warning. (I believe it was later that the English pirates adopted the black flag, adorning it with assorted skulls, crossbones, etc.) If the target vessel didn't respond to the black flag (by running up a white flag), the Buccaneers would display the red flag, which meant literally "no prisoners" -- we're going to kill all of you. So when the Jacobins raised the red flag in front of their club, they were saying, essentially, "we're going to chop you all to pieces and divide your treasure amongst ourselves". Later, during the Paris Commune of 1872 (a much romanticized attempt to reinstate The Terror), the "communards" flew the red flag, and that's when it became associated with Communism.

Fascinating stuff!

Author:  Therese [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:12 am ]
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Fascinating indeed!

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