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 Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade 
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Royalty
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
I suppose so. :|

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:00 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
I was surprised that my library has all the books by Sade. And I had enough courage to ask for them, loud and clear, I wasn’t even thinking about it *respond to my comment :evil: ! I took La Philosophie dans le boudoir and Les Crimes de L’amour, I shall start reading one soon. I know I won’t quit after some pages because I NEVER stop reading the book after I started and I can’t judge him unless I read what he wrote… :o I have skipped Les 120 Journées de Sodome, I thought it would be too much for me! :?

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Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:54 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
(Mirabeau)
Rosalie wrote:
He was ugly, but in a way striking, with his huge body and pock-marked face, and, notwithstanding his ugliness, he was said to have a lot of lovers...A strange and passionate character!

True, it’s amazing!

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Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:57 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
Nowadays, I often think about I'd read 120 days of Sodom. I am sure it is badly perverse.

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Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
Remember Anouk, this material is not for ladies like us! :wink:
Honestly, I am not interested in erotic novels at all, especially not this sort of literature (I don’t know can we even call it just erotic?) :? I think I could call the book I’ve read by Mirabeau erotic but it seems that Sade is way different thing...
I consider this more of a study. :angel5:
I’ll start with Les Crimes de L’amour, sounds interesting.

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:06 am
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
I am rather annoyed at the fact that people depict him as a hero is endured so many trials. People were convinced he was in squalid conditions. When in all reality he had his own apartments and servants. :angry7:

And on top of that the people who were "liberated" from Bastille were in there for a good reason except the lunatic. One was a lunatic, an aristocrat who committed incest, and Marquis de Sade and other perverts. The Lettres de Cachet were not anything to be joked about.

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:48 am
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
You're right. I always look Bastille day with a bit antipathy...

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:59 am
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
In the prologue, he writes about development of novels, quite witty. How men found that it’s easier to amuse women and seduce them than serve them and praise them, so the knight’s ideal was abandoned. He writes about that progress quite interesting and criticize some works, from his own genre too.
I found surprising the following. He actually says that he deliberately makes his character and their actions that horrible in order for a people to hate them, he thinks it is dangerous to make vices more beautiful so people could feel sorry and have sympathy for characters and their actions. My poor translation of one sentence would be “I don’t have a dangerous intention to make women to worship people who cheat them, I want them to detest them, that’s the only way that can stop them to be cheated...”
Anyway, that’s just the beginning, hard for me to believe in the moral of Marquis de Sade. This book was published in 1800. I’ll share my impression when I read it.

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Last edited by Marija Vera on Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
He was most certainly a horrible man who did things that could warrant the death penalty today. (That being a whole other controversy)
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Hellou_Librorum~Or could it be possible that Marquis de Sade was almost doing a documentary of what other nobles did to other people, and what misery

That could definitely be the case in a lot of his work. I have an omnibus of work that has 3 stories by him. Including the most talked about Justine. It's pretty gruesome.
He does admit to many sexual offenses, almost boasts about them.

Quote:
In summary he would take young children primarily male or young males 8-20 brought back to his castle to be tortured, raped and murdered. After the murder he would slice the body open, and look at the innards and go to sleep. In satanic rituals he somdimized the bodies of children, and keeping the heads of the attractive ones.


As for taking them to his place to torture, rape and murder his victims, I can see as a very good possibility.
For the second part, I have to wonder. I can feel comfortable saying that I think he was a bad person inside and out. Even though it seems these statements came forth in a trial, I can't help but think of Marie Antoinettes trial and all the horrid things she was accused of. Even going so far as to warp her own child into saying the accusations were true.

Through all of my studies and my own opinion, I don't think he would slice the body open, and look at the innards and go to sleep. In satanic rituals he somdimized the bodies of children, and keeping the heads of the attractive ones.

Though as always I am willing to be wrong!!! This is one of those cases I hope I'm not and he didn't do those things :angry7: for the sake of the victims and their families.

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
Before writing Justine his editor asked for the novel to be "bien poivré", in other words nice and spicy. Well he said that he certainly didn't let him down! In fact he condemned his own book, as having gone too far...but maybe he felt he had too. Another time, another set of morals. The 18th century was nothing if not libidinous. 100 years later Western European society sank into dark puritanism; just look how women dressed in comparison, all buttoned up in their dark Victorian dresses.

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Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:41 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
Apparently this addition The Crimes of love contains more stories, but in the book I took there are just four (plus his essay on novels and the controversy with Villeterque) –
Faxelange, or the Faults of Ambition, Florville and Courval, or Fatality, Lorenza and Antonio, Italian novel and Eugenie de Franval, A Tragic Tale. I was confused with the prologue and those attempts of Marquis de Sade to show the benefits of virtue. Actually, even the villains face their punishment, both good and bad are equally destroyed in the tragedy (except the Italian novel), he explains his attitude in the essay.
In these stories, there is almost always one perfect woman, example of virtue, kindness, faithfulness and he took that ideal too far so it is quite unconvincing. On the other hand it seems that he portrays villains with much more skills. All together, one quite measured style, without physical violence but psychological, themes – love, incest, betrayal…
Two stories I found quite boring and too pathetic. Epilog of Florville and Courval was so twisted, something like that may be seen only in the Greek mythology. The last and the sickest story of these, Eugenie de Franval, I find quite good. Not because it is so sick but because it has some depth, appears more convincing, it is unique but I wouldn’t advice reading! The only thing I find more frightening than the act is the explanation for it. All of these villains have some elaborated philosophy which you can accept and then everything is allowed. Everything is in some philosophy, were crime is no longer a crime and the moral is being rejected, as well as the religion...
The reason for the different, softer, tone of these stories is that “Sade tried to make The Crimes of Love (published in 1800) conform to the more conservative social climate inaugurated by Napoleon, but he was arrested in 1801.”
Actually Marquis spent a third of his life locked up.

I am now reading La Philosophie dans le boudoir…
dreamoutloud posted the web where you can read it. For me it is certainly much easier reading my own language.

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Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
I've downloaded "120 days of Sodom"- without illustration.

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Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:09 am
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
Tell me what you think then, I’m not sure I’ll be taking anything else from him.

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Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
I get confused at times and this is a good example. It's more of a moral confusion in that I love history and do my best to gather as much knowledge as I can. Sade is apart of that. As are his books. My confusion stems from where is the line. To be able to speak with knowledge about him means reading his work, but how much must one read? I agree with baron de batz (which seems to be a common thing lol) about history and morals. The readers of this board know that I have often said that I do my best to not judge history by todays morals and standards (Probably so much I should make that my signature. LOL). At times that can be a hard thing to do. If a man like Sade existed today and published novels from jail, would I read them? No. That simple.
Quote:
The 18th century was nothing if not libidinous.
Being rather liberal I don't mind that aspect of it. And yes in the end only I can answer for me but I find myself confused at times asking how much knowledge do I really want.
Hummm, sorry for the ramble. I wonder if any others ever have this feeling? :?

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Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:12 am
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Post Re: Louis XVI and Marquis de Sade
ShaktiValkyrie wrote:
I get confused at times and this is a good example. It's more of a moral confusion in that I love history and do my best to gather as much knowledge as I can. Sade is apart of that. As are his books. My confusion stems from where is the line. To be able to speak with knowledge about him means reading his work, but how much must one read? I agree with baron de batz (which seems to be a common thing lol) about history and morals. The readers of this board know that I have often said that I do my best to not judge history by todays morals and standards (Probably so much I should make that my signature. LOL). At times that can be a hard thing to do. If a man like Sade existed today and published novels from jail, would I read them? No. That simple.


Well it depends if public opinion is in his favor. There was a Rhode Island governor who was involved in some huge horrible scandalous "affair" (not the type with a woman) and he went to jail then wrote his autobiography and it was huge! They sold like hotcakes and he wasn't even that popular! Hated to say the least!

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Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:24 pm
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