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Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1236
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Author:  Comte de Provence [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

A new mistress theory, and one which I have heard nothing discussed about here.
I am currently readin; "Marie-Therese:Child of Terror." By Susan Nagel. Here is a passage that has me confused, as we think Louis had no mistress.

"Louis knew this, but, as a man of very strict morals, he had neither desire for mistresses nor favorites. He did, however want to know for certain who would be at fault if his wife did not conceive. There was a young chambermaid at court named Phillipine de Lambriquet, whose husband, Jacques, served on the staff of the Comte de Provence. The King proceeded with his agenda and, it seems, after her liason with the King, she became preganant - though as she also had a husband, Louis was still not quite certain of his own fertility."

And it goes on to say;

"On Friday, July 31, Marie Antoinette felt the baby's first movement. Teasing her husband, she told him that one of his subjects had the audacity to kick her in the stomach. Madame Campan, Marie Antoinette's amiable and witty First Lady-in-Waiting, reported that the King, with tears in his eyes, had given a triumphant shout. That same day, Phillipine de Lambriquet gave birth to a daughter, Marie-Phillipine, who closely resembled the King.

Has anyoen else heard of this? My jaw dropped whilst reading this!!!

Author:  Delilah [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

Well, that shows us a completely different Louis! He was known as the only French king without mistresses and now... :shock: :shock: I'm really surprised!

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

I think I have heard of this 'testing his fertility' theory floating around, but have never read any reputable sources to back it up. No serious scholars write about this in their works on Louis and Antoinette. So unless this is new research, I am highly surprised to hear about what you've read being passed off as "fact". Please, may we have Pimprenelle to the rescue? :lol:

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

I just googled Phillipine, and there are plenty of web sites and conspiracy theories about her giving birth.
In fact we do discuss her child "Ernestine" here http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=317&start=15.
Elena Maria Vidal also discusses the "old substitution theory" on her blog: http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2007/12/madame-royale-and-substitution-theory.html
For those that can read French, she is mentioned in this article: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comtesse_des_T%C3%A9n%C3%A8bres

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

Non, Her name was Marie-Phillipine, not Ernestine.

Author:  Marija Vera [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

I have never heard about it but I think that it was necessary for Louis to think about the possibility to have a child with another woman if M.A. couldn’t have given birth to his heir. The time was different and that was the main duty of the queen – to produce an heir. :?

Author:  baron de batz [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

Marie Philippine Lambriquet (Ernestine as she was called by the Queen) was the daughter of a woman of the same name in the service of Madame Elizabeth, and supposedly of Louis XVI, at least rumour has it that way. However some troubling facts seem to point to this being a possibility. Ernestine, a few months older than MTC, is brought up by MA alongside her own daughter. She is named in the registry of expenses attributed to the Children of France. This was unheard of for any child not recognized as either illegitimate or a natural child of the reigning King. Her mother received a pension from the royal funds from the second month of her pregnancy. Upon her death this pension is paid to Ernestine directly from the King's own funds. She is given the former appartments of Mme de Montespan and of the daughters of Louis XIV. When Madame Royale is freed Louis XVIII expressly requests that Ernestine should be allowed to come to Vienna as well. She bears a distinct likeness to Louis XVI and his sister with the Bourbon features.

It seems that political pressure to provide an heir may just have pushed Louis XVI to act in a way untypical of himself, seeing that Marie Philippine was known not to be barren (she had children), it was a way to test the King's ability to produce an heir. If the problem wasn't with him, then maybe it was with the Queen. They had no sterility tests in those days....and heirs were important... vital. Some say that the Duchess of Angoulême was really Ernestine, and the Countess of Darkness was MTC. That they were swopped at Bâle during the transfer to Austria in exchange for Drouais (of Varennes fame) and other republican prisoners captured by the Austrians. I am one of those that believe this to be likely.

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

I meant to correct myself earlier, I had read on a nd discovered the nickname.

I too think the countess of darkness theory to be likely, because if you look at MTC, in late years, she seems to look WAY different. MA, escalated in features, and MTC changed completely.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

Well, the fact that Louis XVI had a child that was not Marie Antoinette's... Is just... Hard to believe...
I suppose it's not impossible though. :|

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

I agree, it's just unfathomable. Especially the pain she must have felt.

Author:  baron de batz [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

Women were different then, at least those at court. The two weren't as close as they would be in later life. And mistresses and illegitimate children were part of the history of French royalty. MA was probably in love with Fersen too. I reckon she could take the pain, was she even aware of this before it had happened?

Author:  Comte de Provence [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

According to what I've read, she didn't know anything about it til after the birth, and ernestine looked so much like Louis. She was aware that Louis had been spending time with Madame de Polignac, and was sad because of this.

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

I'm skeptical. For these reasons.

I believe when Marie Antoinette told about Louis about her pregnancy it was in 1785, correct me if I'm wrong here.

He had one child with Marie Antoinette, thus proving his fertility, than why would he need to test it?

Even when Louis XVI was presented with an actress he may have found tempting he still rejected her, due to his morals.

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

baron de batz wrote:
Marie Philippine Lambriquet (Ernestine as she was called by the Queen) was the daughter of a woman of the same name in the service of Madame Elizabeth, and supposedly of Louis XVI, at least rumour has it that way. However some troubling facts seem to point to this being a possibility. Ernestine, a few months older than MTC, is brought up by MA alongside her own daughter. She is named in the registry of expenses attributed to the Children of France. This was unheard of for any child not recognized as either illegitimate or a natural child of the reigning King. Her mother received a pension from the royal funds from the second month of her pregnancy. Upon her death this pension is paid to Ernestine directly from the King's own funds. She is given the former appartments of Mme de Montespan and of the daughters of Louis XIV. When Madame Royale is freed Louis XVIII expressly requests that Ernestine should be allowed to come to Vienna as well. She bears a distinct likeness to Louis XVI and his sister with the Bourbon features.

It seems that political pressure to provide an heir may just have pushed Louis XVI to act in a way untypical of himself, seeing that Marie Philippine was known not to be barren (she had children), it was a way to test the King's ability to produce an heir. If the problem wasn't with him, then maybe it was with the Queen. They had no sterility tests in those days....and heirs were important... vital. Some say that the Duchess of Angoulême was really Ernestine, and the Countess of Darkness was MTC. That they were swopped at Bâle during the transfer to Austria in exchange for Drouais (of Varennes fame) and other republican prisoners captured by the Austrians. I am one of those that believe this to be likely.


A) Ernestine was adopted and Marie Antoinette raised them together so Madame Royale was humbled or less arrogant.

B) Perhaps Ernestine was almost like a servant and added t. o the registry to the expenses of The Children Of France.

C) Louis XVII thought that Madame Royale and Ernestine are like sisters since they were raised like sisters.

Author:  Marija Vera [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phillipine de Lambriquet and Louis XVI

baron de batz wrote:
Women were different then, at least those at court. The two weren't as close as they would be in later life. And mistresses and illegitimate children were part of the history of French royalty. MA was probably in love with Fersen too.

You have said it all.

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