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Louis XVI's faults
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1411
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Author:  Ludy [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

:disgust:

Author:  Ludy [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

:angel4:

Author:  baron de batz [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

Indeed this war was ill advised and in a sense quite ridiculous to support a republic against a European monarch, especially as the first strong signs of sympathies for the "new ideas" were showing in France.

What is more he did it just to undermine England's strength, particularly at sea. Which is not a good enough reason to support an insurrection and spend a fortune that you don't have doing it.

It brought temporary glory and briefly shifted the balance of maritime power away from England, but never gave the hoped for trade benefits.

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

baron de batz wrote:
Indeed this war was ill advised and in a sense quite ridiculous to support a republic against a European monarch, especially as the first strong signs of sympathies for the "new ideas" were showing in France.

What is more he did it just to undermine England's strength, particularly at sea. Which is not a good enough reason to support an insurrection and spend a fortune that you don't have doing it.

It brought temporary glory and briefly shifted the balance of maritime power away from England, but never gave the hoped for trade benefits.


I do admire Napoleon a lot, but it is questionable whether or not his actions hastened the shift from France to England as the World major power.

This shift was unavoidable for two reasons :

1) demographics : the French population, which was the most important in Europe, had already started to stagnate before any European nation did -which subsequently led France to be dwarfed both by England and Germany.

2) The navy, which was all the more crucial because the colonial era was beginning.

I do not want to sound like I think I'm a rocket scientist : these are well documented facts. This is the whole thesis of Mélancolie française, by Eric Zemmour.

However it is interesting to ponder the impact of the decision taken upon this outcome. . Mais on ne refait pas l'Histoire.

Author:  Lilly [ Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

Ludy wrote:
A shame we do not have that many threads devoted to the US.


Please feel free to start one. There are a lot of interesting discussions which could arise from this topic.

Author:  Ludy [ Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

Lilly wrote:
Ludy wrote:
A shame we do not have that many threads devoted to the US.


Please feel free to start one. There are a lot of interesting discussions which could arise from this topic.


I am not knowledgeable enough on the American War of Independence, I am afraid !

Author:  Lilly [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

baron de batz wrote:
Indeed this war was ill advised and in a sense quite ridiculous to support a republic against a European monarch, especially as the first strong signs of sympathies for the "new ideas" were showing in France.


Isn't this one reason that other Monarchs hesitated at coming to the aid of the Royal Family? I read that Catherine the Great had stated her reluctance as she sort of felt they bought it on themselves by supporting the Americans against a King.

The involvment of France against England was certainly not the smartest thing Louis XVI could have done. Back to his faults....it would have done him much more good to have wised up to what was going on in his own backyard. Which brings me back to that question...Why didn't Louis know what was happening in France and why didn't he do something about it? He had plenty of time to hunt.....there were plenty of signs long before all hell broke loose.

Also...France, in 1803, under Napoleon, did get paid about 15 million dollars for the Louisiana Purchase.

Author:  baron de batz [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

I think he sold Louisiana quite cheaply! :)

I don't know why Louis XVI didn't wise up to what was happening....the warning signs were there in the reign of his grandfather, and it is clearly Louis XV who paved the way for all this to happen. Louis XVI was socailly aware and did pass a number of reforms, as well as promoting misniters such as Calonne who had ideas ahead of his time, but he never managed to control the nobility and he had a terrible lack of marketing intelligence, as he should have been out explaining things to his people! The one time he did it it was a success...Cherbourg!

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

:love:

Author:  baron de batz [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

With a peculiarity that only the French and the Russian, two similar peoples, were able to push through such a bloody violent revolution. You can say what you like but some nations are more docile than others.

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

:|

Other suggestions ?

Author:  baron de batz [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

You see! Even in your posts you show that slightly extremist revolutionary French spirit, against my more docile conciliatory English manner! :)

We are in agreement on the Russo-French thing. I don't need to read your essay to emphasize that!

However you are wrong to maintain that Louis XVI had a great passion for the English. True he had a morbid fascination with Charles I but he was profoundly irritated by the English and often expressed it. And he went to war with them! His wife however loved them! She said they were the best dancers! And she befriended many of them and it was they that helped her in adversity, like Charlotte Atkins or the British ambassador's wife who brought the Royal family clothes and provisions when in the Feuillants on 11/08/92.

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

Lilly wrote:
baron de batz wrote:

Also...France, in 1803, under Napoleon, did get paid about 15 million dollars for the Louisiana Purchase.


I read he indeed sold Louisiana for a pittance, to the extent that the American delegation thought at first that the price applied only to the territory that has now become the state of Louisiana. As you know, the territory sold was far bigger than that, and almost doubled the superficy of the US !

I did not really understand that Louisiana thing, I think that the territory had been sold before to the Spanish, then bought back by France in 1800ish and sold to the US... But I am not sure at all. It seems confusing.

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

:geek:

Author:  Ludy [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Louis XVI's faults

:angel8:

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