Marie Antoinette Online Forum

Louis XVI's relations with Europe
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Author:  Jules de Polignac [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Louis XVI's relations with Europe

I think that it would be interesting to know how was the relations of Louis XVI with foreign rulers. I'm from Portugal, and I would like to know how was the relations of the Queen of Portugal D.Maria with Louis XVI.

I know that Louis XVI recieved the Emperors of Russia...

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:07 pm ]
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Louis XVI also received the emperor of Austria Joseph II 2 times and the King of Sweden Gustave 3.

He was respected in his European policy, especially at the time of his intervention in the crisis between Prussia and Austria in 1778 and at the time of the crisis between Holland and Austria, where he accelerated the process of peace.
The war of America improved its reputation (except in England :lol: )

Author:  Therese [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:33 pm ]
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Louis XVI was highly respected internationally in the days before the Revolution, and enjoyed good relations with many of the other European monarchs. I do not know how he got on with the monarchs of Portugal but I cannot imagine that it was a hostile relationship.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:45 am ]
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However I forgot specified that between 1774 and 1778, Louis XVI had a reputation of impotent King in Europe because he still did not have a child.
For this period, his private life was very criticized... But thereafter that was arranged :D

Author:  Therese [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:01 pm ]
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Louis-Charles, I do not know if Louis XVI was universally blamed for the sexual problems, and considered "impotent" by other monarchs. Many people blamed Marie-Antoinette. Even the fishwives, who came to congratulate the Comtesse d'Artois at the birth of Angouleme, mocked the queen for "caressing her ladies" instead of producing an heir. In the letters of the Spanish Ambassador to the King of Spain, he mentions that, according to the servants whom he paid to check the sheets, Louis-Auguste was not impotent, and it was indeed thought by many that Antoinette was "refusing" him. (This is reported in Bernard Fay's "Louis XVI.")

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:26 pm ]
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Yes indeed Thérèse you are right: Louis XVI was not the target of all the Kings.
But we must recognize that he was not credible for Joseph II, who taking him for a simpleton after his visit in Versailles in 1778. Frédérick II of Prussia also made fun a little him, and his difficulty of consuming the marriage.
But as you said, fortunately that certain people as of Aranda could try to restore the truth :wink:

Author:  Therese [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:38 pm ]
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Yes, L-C, that is so true that Joseph viewed him in that way, and joked about Louis' private life with Leopold. Yes, indeed, Emperor Frederick held Louis XVI in contempt, as he also held the great Empress Maria Teresa in contempt. Remember that Joseph and Frederick were high-ranking freemasons, and would have despised Louis for his Catholic principles, anyway.

Author:  Vivienne [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:41 pm ]
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Your reference to the `masons has caused me to remember a question that I have wanted to ask for a while now.

Is it correct that the Princess de Lamballe was a freemason? Do you know anything more about this if it is true.


Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:53 pm ]
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Indeed Lamballe formed part of the freemasons.
But we don't know exactly to which point she was implied, and if she do it by a real conviction or just to follow the example of the Duke of Orleans who was also freemasons (Lamballe and him were attended during a moment... )
Polignac also would have formed part of the freemasons :wink:

Author:  Therese [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:05 pm ]
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Yes, dear Vivienne, Louis-Charles is correct. Lamballe was a mason and so was Madame de Polignac, and once the queen herself may have visited a lodge, probably to honor some civic improvement. Pim and I have been studying this and we are beginning to conclude that practically everyone at court, except for Louis XVI, Antoinette, and Madame Elisabeth, belonged to some lodge; it was the fashionable thing to do. Few had a very deep involvement in the masonic philosophy and it was for ladies like Lamballe a nice club to help poor people.

Author:  Jules de Polignac [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:50 pm ]
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Therese wrote:
Yes, dear Vivienne, Louis-Charles is correct. Lamballe was a mason and so was Madame de Polignac

I thougth that Madame de Polignac wasn't a freemason, that the King liked her because she was very conservative and that would prevent Marie Antoinette to became a freemanson as well...

Author:  Therese [ Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:06 pm ]
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That's what I thought, too, Jules. But we just found out that indeed Gabrielle was the member of a lodge, probably in name only. I can't see her being philosophically involved - she was too busy with her family and with the queen's family. Artois may have joined a lodge, as well, and he was VERY conservative. I think that Madame de Polignac was conservative like Artois and she was picked by Louis and Maurepas to keep Antoinette away from the liberal, Orleans coterie with which Madame de Lamballe was affiliated.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:51 pm ]
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The freemanson were increasingly current in this century, and even Joseph II who was however a large defender of monarchy belonged to this philosophy :wink:

Author:  Therese [ Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:09 pm ]
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That is so true! Joseph II was actually part of the Illuminati, according to Abbe Barruel.

Author:  Jules de Polignac [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:22 pm ]
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And Caroline de Naples, Antoinette's sister? I believe that she was also a freemanson, even if she was very conservative...

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