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 Louis and Antoinette's personal relationship... 

How did Louis and Antoinette feel about each other?
They were friendly, but not much more. 45%  45%  [ 15 ]
They were in love with each other the whole time. 33%  33%  [ 11 ]
They were indifferent to each other and didn't see enough of each other anyway. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
They were in love at one point and it tapered off... 15%  15%  [ 5 ]
They didn't like each other at all. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 33

 Louis and Antoinette's personal relationship... 
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Yes. "Only true love is heroic." I forgot that was in the old thread.

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:28 am
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I did not vote. I do not think there was a romantic love.

Of the two of them' I think the king may have been a bit more "in love" , he spoiled the young Queen, he certainly appreciated her, was amused by her.

But this was an arranged deal, they both had been reared to do their duty. The King was always respectful and kind to his wife, he was faithful to their marriage. But this may have been more his personally than deep 'love' for her.

(By the time of the kings death) I think they had gone through so much together, and they had literally grown up together. They went through the death of two of their children, they stood watching their world collapse around them and developed a deep and unbreakable relationship.

Yes, I think they grew to care deeply, even deep love, just not romantic love.

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:51 am
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And Marie-Antoinette liked the romanticism, she was existed by a sunrise, she liked the isolated and beautiful places.
But with her husband, the King, she could not because they did not have the same tastes in this field. Marie-Antoinette was refined, Louis XVI made iron work and forging mill...
They were thus a couple where each one made its own activities, they seldom shared their leisures, except after 1789 when there they walked together in the Tuileries and where they played billiards. :D

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:21 am
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I voted "they were indifferent", for it was the closest choice to my opinion. I think they did not like each other in the beginning, for they were very different from each other. Vulcain and Venus... They had "different tastes".

Furthermore, their intimate life being a failure, they tried to avoid each other the best they could, in my view. They lived the more separatedly they could.

I don't think Louis was so in love with Antoinette. I rather believe he spoiled her to get rid of her in politics ! And that he was as afraid of her and as annoyed by her differences than she was by his.

Their first child got a change in their relationship. They finally were something of a pair. Actually, I think Louis never formed a pair with Marie-Antoinette as king and queen. He would never accept this ! He alone was the king, and jealous of his power. However, then, having children, they finally became a pair, they became parents, and each discovered how the other one was good at this !

The death of two of their precious children brought those two infortunate parents together. But they still were so different... Louis went on hunting, and Antoinette walking in Trianon gardens with her dear friends...

Even if they were closer than they thought, maybe, each of them hiding... in a cabinet under a thousands of geography maps, or in an grotto under the artificial sound of a fall... what's the difference, after all ?

Once in the Tuilerie, they did not really got closer in day to day life, I think. However, Antoinette helped Louis on his personal field, politics, and this somewhat changed the balance. She became an effective queen. But both went on spending their times separatedly.

They really got closer once in the temple. The revolutionaries unwillingly transformed these people so representative of aristocratical marriages into an actual family. They became the family Capet and, being forced to really live together, they finally accepted each other. No more special cabinets, no more refine grotto... nothing more than a day to day life where Louis acted like a father.

So, I think that Marie-Antoinette, who could never entirely love this imposed husband, deeply love this honest man, this good father she could rely on. I agree with Simone Bertiere's analyse. This man Antoinette eventually loved and admired so much that she followed his example to face death.

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:23 am
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Yes, Louis XVI was determined from the beginning to keep his wife out of politics. His Tante Adelaide always held before him the image of Jeanne-Antoinette de Pompadour, who was blamed by some members of the royal family for all of France's problems, such as the failed war and the expulsion of the Jesuits. Besides, she was an Austrian and he wanted to make certain she did not push the Austrian agaenda. Also, he thought it would protect her from popular hatred to keep her out of politics. He was convinced that women made a mess of politics, although later he began to turn to her more for advice, discovering that she had a fine political sense.

We all seem to agree that at one point the king and queen became close to each other, we just differ as to when. Yes, after Louis-Joseph died they retreated to Meudon for a week or two to grieve their son together. They did turn to each other. But that did not mean that they did not have their usual activities after they returned form Meudon, and then of course the Estates- General was upon them, which took all of Louis' time.

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:52 pm
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Yes, Therese, it is difficult to know when they felt close, after all. In y opinion, it was a slow process. But they were not supposed to be, after all ! They were supposed to produce heirs, that's all.

I think that their first years of intimate failure deeply damaged their relationship. It could be inconcious also (I am playing little freudian Zweigs, here ! :lol: ). I mean that they were afraid of each other, I think, and did not open to each other, not really.

As long as they could, they had separate lives, they slept together the less they could, and court habits allowed all this. Even in the Tuileries, even if closer, already parents and friends, there still remained a certain distance between them.

They maintained this "safety" distance the longer they could. But, once imprisoned in the temple, that was not longer possible. Then, they discovered that they perfectly were able to get along. At this moment, Marie-Antoinette admired her husband. This image of him as a father she deeply admired and loved.

And I am certain she died loving him a way that is sweeter than all these romantic passions !

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:49 pm
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Yes, Pimprenelle, I agree, she died loving him. As Clare Booth Luce said in her play "The Women:" "It is being together at the end that matters."

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Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:49 pm
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Jason Schwarzman (sp?) who plays Louis in the upcoming movie, did say something I thought was nice, that he believed they 'ached for each other'. I think its a nice notion to believe that, for they did have ups and downs as all couples do, but I think when you go through as much as they both endured, it would have made them close. Also after reading Antonia Frasers, The Journey, I think Marie did love Louis, and he was very faithful to her not taking other partners when in that time it was something that was happening all the time.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:57 am
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I agree. And I think she was faithful to him, too.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:46 pm
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Jasine d'Adelaide wrote
Quote:
I think Marie did love Louis, and he was very faithful to her not taking other partners when in that time me it was something that was happening all the time.

Yes I agree, one just has to look back in history to see that it was almost expected of a King to have a mistress.

It must have been very difficult for the two teenagers been thrust together as man and wife when they were complete strangers to one another. Then there was the constant attention paid to their every movement, not to memtion the pressure to produce an heir to the throne.


Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:51 pm
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Yes, and they were both very modest and senstitive young people who valued privacy. I do think they were each traumatized by the constant speculation and pressure about their marital intimacies.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:35 pm
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Yes you are right Therese!
Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette were in the center of the glances as of their first night together, and they had to undergo the rumours and criticisms as of the following day because the marriage was not consumed....And they underwent that during 7 years... hard :?

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:56 pm
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That's why they finally had this secret passage built. To avoid all those continuous gossips...

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:05 pm
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And according to Girault de Coursac it would be Mercy who would have encouraged Marie-Antoinette to make build this passage. And according to them it encouraged Marie-Antoinette to close more often her door to her husband the evening because it was more discrete with this passage... but it is arguments of Girault de Coursac thus attention :lol:

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:14 pm
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Oh, dear, well, I would think that with the passage no one would know when the king came or how often. I thought Louis wanted the passage and even made the locks on the doors himself! But I could be wrong....

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