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Louis and Antoinette's personal relationship...
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=408
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Author:  meezardra [ Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:35 am ]
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I couldn't really decide what to put here, because I disagree with all choices. Marie Antoinette and Louis Auguste grew to love each other - it didn't happen straight away, and after some time, it did not diminish.

Author:  last_dance [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  marie and louis

Well, I have been reading a lot about the two. (Marie and Louis).

I voted, just to get that out. The two did have some love for each other, like you said, a Queen for a King and etc. She loved him, because he was her husband and father of her children. But she wasn't exactlly in love with him, she, well, respected in him. Some people say that Louis was in love with Marie, and he wanted her too be happy, at all cost. That, my friends, was his downfall. :) So there was some love in the relationship. But, agian, we will never really know that. :wink:

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:33 pm ]
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I know this is a dead topic, but I could not help but post here.
I voted for what I thought was close to the truth - "They were in love the whole time."
I believe that it started out as not even friendship, that Louis did not care for Antoinette, that Antoinette did not care for Louis. They had very different tastes - Antoinette loved to create styles and loved to dance, Louis was creative in the way that he loved to make locks and to work with wood and metal. Perhaps they soon became good friends, and perhaps did have some "puppy love", shall I say, for each other.
When little miss Madame Royale was born, I believe their relationship deepened dramatically into love. They laughed, cried, fought, and lived together, just as many couples do. At the death of their precious little Sophie, it gave them a taste of what it is like to go through absolute sorrow together, as one. The revolution gave them more and more time to spend with each other, perhaps this made them happy. They did not see enough of each other. Antoinette was ruined by his death, and she never was the same. She refused to leave her husband, resulting, ultimately, in her death. I believe they were in love.
*points to Madame de Guéméné's dogs* Plus! Madame de Guéméné's dogs told me. Therefore...

Author:  sophie-louisa [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:47 pm ]
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Hi, dead topic but I thought I'd post anyway. I didn't vote because none of the above fit what I think.

I certainly don't think they were in love "the whole time" because they met when they were 14 and 15 - and neither were really mature. I think that they liked each other, in their own way, and probably Louis more than Antoinette. They were friendly and in "puppy love" as you say, because at that age with little experience, they couldn't really have more. The birth of their children brought them a little closer because the pair adored their children. Louis never showed disappointment in the fact Madame Royale was a Madame Royale, and loved her all the same. He said he wouldn't take a mistress. I feel it was out of loyalty not only to Antoinette but to his own person. It is only natural he would develop an affection of some form because that's the sort of person he was. He was a family man.

As for Antoinette, her feelings for Louis I feel are shown by her choice to stay with him for the final crunch when any other woman might take the children and flee, because it was common sense to do that. But she stayed with him until the very end. When he died she was never the same again. The loss of Louis and the children good as destroyed her. I think that they did love each other on some level - he was affectionate and she admired him... even if she did where the trousers. It's hard to judge whether they were in love because that's very strong and the only ones who would know for sure are Louis and Antoinette. Therefore, we cannot know.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:39 pm ]
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Our feelings are not the same, Sophie-Louisa. I do agree with you, that they were mere children when they were married, therefore it could not have love at first. But do you not agree that they were in love, say, from the mid 1770's to 1793? :)

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:01 am ]
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Madame Le Brun, I have a feeling you are one pf those romantics who wishes that MA and Louis were a beautiful in love couple. The simple truth is that very, very, very rarely do arranged marraiges work, let alone result in the couple "falling in love," and MA and Louis were such different people physically and in their personalities, and I doubt MA was ever very attracted to her husband sexually. From what we can see in their relationship, there is very little to draw the conclusion that they were "in love." Yes, she did stick by him through the whole revolution, but that was partly because they had been married for 23 years, born 4 children together (which was technically required) and did love eachother. Also, MA knew her position and her responsibilities. And there is the whole, "he never took a mistress" thing, and that wasn't that he was in love with his wife, it was simply his beliefs and the fact that he had great respect for his wife and probably was never tempted to anyway since he knew he really couldn't get any better than her! Besides, I do believe that she was in love with Fersen for a short time, probably from the early 80's to the late 80's, although I am sure they never had a physical relationship because that wasn't the person she was. So, were they "in love?" No, it just isn't plausible and there is very little evidence to suggest so. Did they love eachother? I believe so.

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:12 am ]
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How would you differentiate between being "in love" and "loving" someone?

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:46 pm ]
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Well, for instance my aunt and uncle. They love eachother but are not in love, they never have been and they just don't have that kind of relationship. In a more obvious case, I love my mom but I'm not in love with her.

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:08 pm ]
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Yes, Monsieur Andre, I am one of those. But I am also very stubborn, and believe what I want to believe! :lol: Yes, I admit it! But somehow Louis and Antoinette were unusually close for an arranged marriage. I do not believe, I suppose, that it was physical attraction, but more emotional. Louis most likely fathered all of Marie Antoinette's dear little children, so he must have been physically attracted to her, right? And did he not say, to his spinster aunts, that he very much enjoyed physical relations with his wife? But sex and love are two different things, as trashy MTV reality stars have so helpfully pointed out to us! :lol: :D
But are you one of those who believes that Antoinette was one of those woman you should pity, because she had some fat, drunkard for a husband?You and I are polar opposites on the subject, Dear Monsieur Andre!

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:47 pm ]
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I never doubted Louis was physically attracted to her, she was beautiful. And I don't pity MA, her hasband wasn't a drunkard. Yes, he was fat, but they both had probelms and virtues and they both made it through. DOn't be so quick to judge. :wink:

Author:  Madame Vigée-Le Brun [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:29 pm ]
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Yes, pardon me for being so short with you, my dear Monsieur Andre. I do value your opinion! And I see your point, they loved each other, but it wasn't wild sexy love! :lol: :wink: But still, isn't it a heart warming story? Of how a wild care-free young woman ended up sticking by her shy and sensitive husband? :D

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:44 am ]
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I wouldn't say hart-warming, but it is touching.

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:44 pm ]
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They seemed to love each other unconditionally. Which is the purest form of Love....

Author:  Ludy [ Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:35 am ]
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It is hard to compare to nowaday's conception of love within marriage I assume. As it was mentioned, rarely do arranged marriage work. Marie Antoinette was not a meek woman but a very strong willed one and she was difficult to handle. In her 20s, she was somewhat scornful and disagreable towards him I think. Let's say they had their ups and downs, as it was said. But thay had a very serious conception of marriage and duty, something we tend to lose maybe nowadays, for them in was an actual commitment before God. I also think they shared the same ideas on upbringing and the same love for their children.

Author:  Délicate fleur [ Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:55 am ]
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'If the King had not inspired the Queen with a lively feeling of love, it is quite certain that she yielded him respect and affection for the goodness of his disposition and the equity of which he gave so many proofs throughout his reign.' (Madame Campan's Memoirs)

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