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 Louis and Antoinette's personal relationship... 

How did Louis and Antoinette feel about each other?
They were friendly, but not much more. 45%  45%  [ 15 ]
They were in love with each other the whole time. 33%  33%  [ 11 ]
They were indifferent to each other and didn't see enough of each other anyway. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
They were in love at one point and it tapered off... 15%  15%  [ 5 ]
They didn't like each other at all. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 33

 Louis and Antoinette's personal relationship... 
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It is a matter of interpretations ! Many authors said that through this passage the king could more discretely go and meet his wife. However, the GdeC suggest that thanks to this passage, she could more discretely keep her door closed ! No one would see poor Louis getting back to his room... :roll:

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:00 pm
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Ah it's necessary to read the Girault de Coursac 's books with much of prudence :lol:
But it is interesting to know their opinion :wink:

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:27 pm
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Very interesting! Well, at least he saw her enough to have four childen!

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:40 pm
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Indeed Therese! :D

With time they could forget their embarrassments (or almost) and ensure their descent.
But after the birth of Sophie in 1786 Marie-Antoinette specified in Louis XVI that she did not wish any more to have children. From this time they did not have relations any more.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:55 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Indeed Therese! :D

With time they could forget their embarrassments (or almost) and ensure their descent.
But after the birth of Sophie in 1786 Marie-Antoinette specified in Louis XVI that she did not wish any more to have children. From this time they did not have relations any more.


I never heard this, dear Louis-Charles. I know that she was exhausted by the last pregnancy and like many women after a birth sigh "oh, never again" but how could she refuse her husband unless it was mutually agreed?

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:03 pm
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She must have had a serious gynecological problem. A wife could not morally throw her husband out of bed, without grave reason.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:07 pm
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Since she was a young Queen in 1774, Marie-Antoinette was never attracted by the successive pregnancies like those of her mother (16 childrens). She always wanted to have few children to privilege their education.
And the pregnancy of Sophie, approximately one year after that of Louis-Charles, was a too pregnancy .
The problem is that contraception at this time was non-existent... thus if she did not want to have any more child she did not have much choice. But Louis XVI was not attracted by the relations of this type, he had love relations more by royal obligation as by pleasure, therefore I don't think that the decision of Marie-Antoinette obstructed him.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:20 pm
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Well, there were very primitive devices of contraception in existence at that time, even condoms, but then, as now, practicing Catholics would not use such devices because of the sin of Onanism in the Book of Genesis. ( By practicing, I mean people who partook regularly of the sacraments of confession and communion, not like Louis XV who did not confess until he as dying.) If at some point, the king and queen made a private mutual agreement to abstain from conjugal relations, that was a very personal decision, a very private matter and must have involved a health condition.

Sometimes couples abstained between pregnancies for the health of the mother. Who knows if the Revolution and so many tensions had not befallen them the king and queen may have had more children. Couples go through phases and if Louis and Antoinette chose to abstain, I do not think it was because Louis was indifferent to sex. At that time, of course, he was overwhelmed by dire political concerns. I also do not believe that Antoinette would have resolved once and for all never to have children again, that would have been against the moral law for her to refuse to get pregnant again just because she did not feel like it. But if a couple withdrew from each other for health reasons, to give the woman's body a chance to recover from so many successive births, that would be understandable....

I have never read this and am wondering where you saw this information, dear friend. I do not question your integrity, I am just curious. :)

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:37 pm
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Wow! you allow me to suspend many English words thank you dear Therese! :lol: Fortunately I have a dictionary with me there it was useful to me!
I agree with you, it's not the only fact that Louis XVI was never attracted by the sex that they stopped their relation in love. Indeed the political concern is there surely for something too.
But I am sure that Marie-Antoinette did not want any more to have children after Sophie... I read it in several books but I will seek to find the historians who affirm it.
But Marie-Antoinette wanted to really privilege the education of her children, I also read it much time...

Ah I am also very curious with Marie-Antoinette me too! :wink:
It is possible that I'm mistaken, but then certain historians were also mistaken :?

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Last edited by Louis-Charles on Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:56 pm
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Dear Chou-Charles, you do not need to mention particular sources; I was just curious. I now remember that I have read that somewhere, too, I just cannot remember which author. I know that the new novel "Abundance" says that the queen wanted a break from child-bearing after Sophie.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:18 pm
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Ah but me also I am very curious, and I would really like to find my sources because I don't remember it and I don't like that! :lol:

You know I really love speech of Marie-Antoinette and to exchange ideas, your opinion about the desires of Marie-Antoinette in terms of pregnancies interests me really too. :wink:
And it's very possible that in 1786 Marie-Antoinette has just desired to do a break, and not to stop the relations in love definitively. The break just will have lasted longer than envisaged :D

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:32 pm
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Yes, she was so health-conscious, and with her delicate nerves she probably needed to space the pregnancies a bit more than she had been. But in 1787, Sophie died, after being very frail, and it was very devastating to her. Antoinette grieved deeply. Then, after a year or less, Louis-Joseph's health began to fail, and she cared for him day and night. Then he died. And then it was the Revolution - one trauma after another.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:47 pm
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Exactly!
After the birth of Sophie, the life of Marie-Antoinette was only one succession of disillusions, sufferings and anguish. The hour was not any more with the relations in love, the priority was the survival of monarchy and their family.

But it would be indeed interesting to know if Marie-Antoinette and Louis XVI, between 1786 and 1789, shared the same bed (because we know that they slept very seldom together), and if yes how much time...

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:57 pm
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It could also be that she blamed Sophie's frailty on the fact that the baby was conceived so soon after Charles' birth. Antoinette's body had not had time to recuperate. I have heard other women mention this about children born too close together - the one who follows after is sometimes weak. It is possible that her physicians even recommended that she take a break from childbearing and build up her health and strength again for the sake of future offspring. (It was always considered prudent for royal couple to have many children since they so often died as babies.) But we know that it was not to be.

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Last edited by Therese on Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:01 pm
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Exactly!
After the birth of Sophie, the life of Marie-Antoinette was only one succession of disillusions, sufferings and anguish. The hour was not any more with the relations in love, the priority was the survival of monarchy and their family.

But it would be indeed interesting to know if Marie-Antoinette and Louis XVI, between 1786 and 1789, shared the same bed (because we know that they slept very seldom together), and if yes how much time...


Yes, it would be interesting. I think they consoled each other in many ways. Stress makes some couples more amorous but other couples become more withdrawn from physical love. And they were faced with incredibly stressful personal and national ordeals.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:05 pm
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