Marie Antoinette Online Forum
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*Maybe he was just besotted?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=499
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Author:  Therese [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:44 pm ]
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Pimprenelle wrote:
Louis had been raised and very strict religious principles. He also had the model of his grand-father, Louis XV, and did not want to follow it.


This is very true.

Louis XVI was trying not to be like his grandpa. His aunts had drilled it into him that he must not be like Louis XV; he MUST NOT and have mistresses. Therefore Louis XVI exercised restraint even when it came to his own wife. (Nevertheless, he had several children with her.) Whether he liked sex or not was not a factor as much as his strong religious beliefs and his FEAR of having a woman control him.

Artois, on the contrary, admired Louis XV. He was very close to his grandpa, and tried to be like him, in every way. Artois was also the youngest. He was a bit spoiled and did not have as much self-control as Louis XVI.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:48 pm ]
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Indeed Pim! Artois and Louis-Auguste did not have anything in common: Artois was famous for his charm and his joy life, Louis-Auguste was more timid, and he did not rely on him.
According to testimonys, Artois was the worthy successor of Louis XV :D

But Louis-Auguste was educated like a King by La Vauguyon when his big brother died… Artois was less constrained about that....

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:49 pm ]
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Oups I had not seen your post Therese sorry, but we agree I see :lol:

Author:  Therese [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:51 pm ]
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Pimprenelle wrote:
Quote:
True but it didn't appear to stop Artois. That said they were temperamentally very different I guess. I have not seen a situation anywhere that Louis ever had a mistress or a lover other than Antoinette at any point during his life.

I am not so sure that Artois had exactly the same education. He was not supposed to be king. Louis soon was, after having lost her brother and her father.

Furthermore, you must be right, there was a temperamental difference between those boys. I'd even say, between Artois and his brothers. Provence had no mistress either.

Artois on the other hand was very interested in women ! :lol: especially comedians ! :lol:


That is true, Artois was charming and got away with a lot from his elders. It was the same with the ladies. Also, Artois was married to a woman he did not love. Louis came to love Antoinette very much. He did not want any other woman, only her.

When Artois fell in love with Madame de Polastron, he lost interest in other women. He only wanted her. After she died, he made a vow of chastity and became very devout. He kept his vow, too.

Author:  Therese [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:52 pm ]
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Oups I had not seen your post Therese sorry, but we agree I see :lol:


That's ok, we keep missing each other. :wink:

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:57 pm ]
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Moreover, Artois has, contrary to Louis-Auguste, been able to immediately consume his marriage with his wife… it was the only who did not have any difficulty with that....Louis-Auguste had to wait 7 years, and Provence never arrived there :?

Author:  Therese [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:10 pm ]
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Louis-Charles wrote:
Moreover, Artois has, contrary to Louis-Auguste, been able to immediately consume his marriage with his wife… it was the only who did not have any difficulty with that....Louis-Auguste has to have patience 7 years, and Provence never arrived there :?


They were in different situations, different pressures, different types of wives.

Author:  Moose [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:04 pm ]
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What was the deal with Provence anyway? I know that he was obese but even obesity should not have prevented consummation. Antonia Fraser says that he boasted about regular sex sessions even though he was in fact having none. Did he NEVER manage to consummate his marriage?

Author:  Therese [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:58 pm ]
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I don't think we really know. I have read that Provence did at one point get his wife pregnant but she had a miscarriage. He had health problems, and probably diabetes, which contributed to recurring impotence. He also had "mistresses," even later in life, such as the Comtesse du Cayla. Mostly intellectual relationships, we think. (Antonia Fraser is not always reliable for data.)

Author:  Pimprenelle [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:04 pm ]
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I have also read that diabetes problems could cause Provence's impotence.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:12 pm ]
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According to a part of historians, Provence was really impotence....like the Duke of Angoulème :?

Author:  Therese [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:17 pm ]
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I know, L-C, but I have read other historians who said that it may not have been as bad as Angouleme, but it became so because of the diabetes.

Author:  Louis-Charles [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:27 pm ]
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Yes you're right it's also a possibility :D

Author:  Moose [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:04 pm ]
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I presume his diabetes would have developed later in life tho and was type 2 - as if it had been present from childhood he would not have lived - so it shouldn't explain his inability to consummate his relationship. It's a quite unusual thing, I would have thought, to be TOTALLY impotent for life.

Author:  Therese [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:15 pm ]
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I read once that he did consummate his marriage and may have gotten his wife pregnant, but she had a miscarriage. We do not know for sure about such an intimate matter. Provence also had a congenital defect in his hips. He was not able to go hunting with his brothers. So he may have had other problems, too.

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