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If Louis had married someone else?
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=702
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Author:  Moose [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:50 pm ]
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The bio I am just reading says that one of the Archduchesses died at the time potential marriages were just beginning to be contemplated and one caught smallpox and was left disfigured and hence not marriageable, so the potential candidates for foreign marriage were narrowed down to three.

Author:  Therese [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:51 pm ]
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That's right! And the one with pock marks became a nun!

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:25 am ]
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Quote:
Love your avatar! Is that from Gianni Schicci?


Yes, I love the music of Puccini. I practise lyric song...

Quote:
That's right! And the one with pock marks became a nun!


It was Marie-Elisabeth, wasn't it? It was a plan between her and Louis XV... Marie-Anne, her elder sister, caught an infantile disease and she became also a nun...

Do you know an other project for Louis XVI's marriage?

Author:  Therese [ Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:28 pm ]
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I don't remember exactly. I can't keep all those daughters straight. But what you say sounds right.

Author:  Moose [ Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:48 pm ]
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Fraser refers to Marianne as being disabled but doesn't say how or why. However it was apparently taken for granted that she couldn't marry. One has to feel rather sorry for her and her pockmarked sister :(. I guess that life didn't have many more options for them other than the nunnery, as they were apparently unmarriageable (that said I suppose their lives were probably a lot more comfortable, as Archduchesses, than many people's at the time were).

Author:  Therese [ Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:00 pm ]
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The girls who became nuns were the lucky ones....

Author:  Madame Amelia [ Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:06 pm ]
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Moose wrote:
Fraser refers to Marianne as being disabled but doesn't say how or why. However it was apparently taken for granted that she couldn't marry. One has to feel rather sorry for her and her pockmarked sister :(. I guess that life didn't have many more options for them other than the nunnery, as they were apparently unmarriageable (that said I suppose their lives were probably a lot more comfortable, as Archduchesses, than many people's at the time were).


This point has been bugging me since I read my first bio of Marie Antoinette. I can't find out what kind of disability Marianne had anywhere!

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: If Louis had married someone else?

To respond to the OP, I do think that if Louis had married a woman of a different character than MA, then history would have been decidedly different. If MA hadn't pursued her lifestyle in her early and later years, then there would have been no basis for The Affair of the Necklace, which was a deciding factor in her downfall and indeed the outbreak of the Revolution. I think it's more a question of, "What if MA had made different choices?"

Author:  Mondeskind [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:55 pm ]
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Locks of Louis wrote:
Although Antionette's main problem wasn't her extravagance (or the preception of it), but that she was Austrian. Prior to a treaty in the 1750s Austria and France were enemies. So, when Marie Antionette came to court people were determined to hate her and put the worst spin on her actions as possible.

However, there's no denying that by the time Louis XVI became King France was in deep trouble. It's not likely that Louis would have been able to fix these problems (In his double biography of the King and Queen, Vincent Cronin mentions that it would take a political genius to straighten out France's finances.)

It was not Louis XVI fault that France was in such a mess though, so the Revolution wasn't really his fault. I think it was inevitable, although perhaps it could have been stalled had Louis been prepared to take action against the people of France.

Poor Louis XVI was in the wrong place at the wrong time. :(


I agree with Locks of Louis. To a certain extent, Louis XVI could have married anyone and there could have been problems. But the fact that M-A was Austrian was a big portion of their problems. If she had been any other nationality, I think the media may not have been so hard on her, but who knows really?

I personally do not subscribe to the age factor. 18 was much more mature in the 18th Century than it is now. Yes, it is young, but also remember these people had been born and bred to rule. They had been raised in these circumstances.

Author:  Rosalie [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If Louis had married someone else?

Yes, read the same thing...and I think it's amazing how many cases and coincidences happened pushing MA towards her tragic destiny...Sorry, maybe I'm becoming romantic, but don't you sometimes think of it?

Author:  Ludy [ Tue May 27, 2008 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: If Louis had married someone else?

(a bit off topic) what did Marie-Anne exactly suffered from ? I never managed to find an exact answer, but judging by the portraits (even flattered) she does not seem to be handicaped, contrary to what many biographers make out.

it would have been better if Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette had married when they were a bit more mature. But I don't think that it would have changed a lot if he had married someone else. Louis was determined not to have mistresses, then all eyed would have been focused on the queen. The monarchy was to archaic anyway, so it was bound to collapse.

MA's fate may appear tragic indeed, but personnaly I don't believe in destiny ...

Author:  Rosalie [ Thu May 29, 2008 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If Louis had married someone else?

Handicapped? No, she wasn't! What are you referring to?

Author:  Hellou_Librorum [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: If Louis had married someone else?

I do know this for sure (even though an intoxicated whale would consider this obvious). Louis Charles and Madame Royale would have not exsisted.

Author:  Wesley [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:05 pm ]
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Therese wrote:
I think CATBOOTS meant that many people, other than the erudite members of this forum, often forget how young Louis and Antoinette actually were.


They were only young by today's standards, and thus their ages are no more interesting to me than the age of Tutankhamun when he became king. Adolescence is a societal construct that didn't exist at the time of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI.

Author:  Wesley [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Therese wrote:
I think CATBOOTS meant that many people, other than the erudite members of this forum, often forget how young Louis and Antoinette actually were.


They were only young by today's standards, and thus their ages are no more interesting to me than the age of Tutankhamun when he became king. Adolescence is a societal construct that didn't exist at the time of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI.

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