Marie Antoinette Online Forum
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British Royals vs. French Royals
http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=676
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Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:25 pm ]
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French, Russian (I like the last Romanov: Dagmar of Danemark, Alix of Hesse-Darmstadt and her daughters), Austrian (Marie-Antoinette's sisters, Sophie von Bayern? Elisabeth of Austria wife of Charles IX), but I am above all interested in the Queens and princess! Toute petite on m'apprenait des arbres généalogiques).

I also like these Queens of England: Isabelle of France, Isabelle of Angouleme, Catherine of Aragon. But I don't like Elizabeth Ist.

I think that the History of England, France, Austrian, Russian, and Yougoslavia are very interesting... :roll:

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:25 pm ]
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And Poland!

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:22 pm ]
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Why don't you like Elizabeth I? And all the English queens you mentioned weren't Queen Regnant, but Queen Consort. There's a difference.

Author:  Victoire-Adélaïde [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:40 pm ]
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It is true... :oops: Pardonnez-moi mais je n'ai pas pris la peine de le mentionner. :oops: Et c'est aussi que je ne sais pas très bien parler anglais, donc je ne peux pas dire tout ce que je voudrais évoquer. En France nous ne faisons pas la différence, en dépit de la loi salique.

I don't like Elizabeth's politic. I'm sorry!

Author:  Monsieur Andre [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:14 pm ]
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Her politic, what do you mean?

Author:  doritmi [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Women and the 18th century?

I'm putting it under this topic because I am reading this thesis in relation to Charles II, but it's even more relevant to MA. Derek Wilson, in a book about Charles II, suggests that the criticisms of his affairs was not on the usual moral ground; compared to conetmporary men and rulers, Charles was not that promiscuous. where he differed was that he liked women's company and treated them almost like equals - he gave them political power and listened to them, instead of treating them like baby machines.
This was part of the criticism levelled at MA, and it's interesting because the 17-18th century at least, if not before, saw a line of strong influential women in many countries in Europe. so was it an era of hatred towards women with power or influence? or was MA singled out in a way that other powerful women were not, for political reasons?
What did men think about women in general in the late 18th century? saints or whores? baby machines? at home with the kids?

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:26 am ]
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Elena Maria Vidal has just posted a Blog about Mary I of England! Its a very good blog. I've always felt that MAry was the victim of history being written by the victors
http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/

Author:  Arietta [ Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:22 pm ]
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Thanks for posting about that!

Author:  Monsieur Royale [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:08 am ]
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no prob. You know its always bugged me that MAry got the title "Bloody Mary" yet her father never got such a name...when far more blood was on his hands

Author:  Moose [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:33 pm ]
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Yes there was possibly a certain amount of sexism going on there. Henry, despite being a tyrant, nonetheless probably managed to inspire a certain amount of respect and reluctant admiration.

Author:  TsmnDs [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:41 pm ]
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Doritmi stated
Quote:
Charles was not that promiscuous. where he differed was that he liked women's company and treated them almost like equals - he gave them political power and listened to them, instead of treating them like baby machines.

and asked
Quote:
What did men think about women in general in the late 18th century? saints or whores? baby machines? at home with the kids?


I think women became more liberated towards the end of the 18th century but not in an openly acknowledged way. Intellectual pursuits, business, science, travel were becoming increasingly common but for some reason were still not universally acknowledged as socially acceptable. I think the same was true on the political scene. Women were showing themselves to have abilities, but society had still to come to terms with this.
Many female authors of the time: Burney, Edgeworth, Brunton, Radcliff etc. populated their novels with strong heroines who found themselves in difficulties principally beacause of the weakness and lack of insight of the men in their lives. Yet this was shown to be acceptable. The message, even from leading, 'feminists' seemed to be "Yes be strong and be clever, but you must still do what your male guardian (father, brother, guardian, husband) tells you. Even if he's wrong. Be virtuous and dutiful and it'll all be alright in the end." A double edged sword if ever there was one. I think as a society we (the Brits) were getting the hang of allowing women a little more freedom and independence; then Albert died, Victoria lost the plot and it wall went downhill from there. As does my arguement. Sorry.

Author:  Moose [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:21 pm ]
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Jane Austen is a good case in point - a woman who did earn for herself (I believe) and yet still peopled her novels with women who, whilst often good and strong women, were nonetheless overly concerned with the pursuit of husbands as there was little else for them in life.

Author:  Princesse Amelie [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:38 am ]
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True- I've always loved Lizzie Bennett, because although she knew she was relegated to the pursuit of a husband, she was determined to marry for love :D Jane Austen may not have been an outright feminist, but she was certainly ahead of her time.

Author:  markizimara [ Mon May 14, 2007 9:37 pm ]
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1. France
2. Britain
3.Russia
4. Habsburg
5. Serbia
Kingdoms

Author:  markizimara [ Mon May 14, 2007 9:40 pm ]
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France had Marie Antoinette, England had Marie Theresia, Russia had Catherine the Great and Serbia had Jelena Anzujska..

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